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Thread: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

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    Default Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hi All,

    I am now the proud owner of a pretty cool old midsize semi hobby CNC router 3 axis mill.
    The model name is Phoenix II made around the early 90s by a company named Magnum.
    From what I gather it uses a cnc 4 controller by centroid and the driver boards are marked with MICRO1.

    Anyone have the software to operate this thing?

    Also any information about the MICRO1 board would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Alex

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by Talex; 09-19-2016 at 10:52 AM.


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    If you don't have any luck getting the old controls to work, you can replace everything down to the stepper motors with something new; it shouldn't cost more than $500 or so if you assemble the system yourself. The current favorite around here is the G-540 from Geckodrives; it will replace the breakout board and drives, so all you need is a heatsink and a 48v power supply set up in an enclosure. Use it with Mach3 or LinuxCNC that you can run on a PC.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hi Andrew,

    I think my most reasonable plan is going to be to get rid of the controller and reuse the driver boards as they seem to be working well.
    I will need to find some documentation about the "MICRO1" driver boards if this plan is going to be successful.



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Good luck, then (I still say chuck all that old stuff and start fresh): http://static.schneider-electric.us/...8-788-01A1.pdf

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hi Andrew,

    The attached pdf manual seems to be of a PLC named micro-1 not the Micro-1 stepper driver card.

    What I have is an old CNC4 controller by Centroid with 3 driver boards (labeled MICRO1). They are all separate boards so I was thinking that I can reuse the 3 driver boards.
    It looks like each board receives a pulse direction and enable signal. I would like to find some documentation about the driver boards so that I know exactly what type and level signal it expects.



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Talex,

    I would be interested in seeing a picture of your driver boards. I have a couple of CNC4 controllers left over from upgrades and thought that the drivers in the controller box were tightly integrated to the proprietary embedded computer that controlled the machine. My CNC4 controllers used a terminal program talking through a serial port to a PC. The manual says any serial port terminal program would work. But my CNC4s were used on a knee mill. I have the Centronics terminal software somewhere if you need it. And lots of boards for the controllers. I switched to Chinese drivers with a BOB and LinuxCNC and am very happy with the result.

    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hi John,

    The electronics box looks like this:

    Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1-electronics-e1340476576147-jpg

    Its not my image but its the same unit. I'm not sure if I can post links so if you google "Magnum Phoenix CNC Project (Help Wanted!)" you'll get the webpage its from.
    The card on the far left is the CNC4 Controller followed by a board with a couple of 12/5 v power supplies and the next 3 cards are the micro1 stepper drivers.

    I cant find the post right now but I found an image of the MICRO1 driver board connector pins and it shows 3 inputs from the controller. Power, step and direction I would like to confirm that
    these pins receive the same type of signal as today's common drives before I start trying to connect anything.

    If you have the software I'd certainly like to have that as well.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1-electronics-e1340476576147-jpg  


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Talex,

    Attached is a picture of one of my controllers (looks a lot like yours), a zip file with the CNC4 software, and an image of what I think is the driver card pinouts. All info is use at your own risk. The software is just a serial terminal program. The embedded computer in the CNC4 contains the firmware to run the system. It writes and reads all the info for the user interface. The embedded computer on the first board is actually very robust. You might want to just try and get the CNC4 running as it sits. If nothing else that will tell you what runs and what does not run. BTW my system drivers ran at 80 VDC. At 8 amps that was more than enough to kill.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1-micro1-pinout-jpg   Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1-img_4751-jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the info. One thing I lack vs your setup is the CNC4 I/O board but everything else seems to be the same as you say.
    I will probably try testing the machine through a serial terminal but my end goal is to run some modern CNC control software like mach3.

    That pin out image you posted is the one I mentioned I've seen somewhere and am using as reference.My main issue right now is that I dont know the type of signal the driver expects through the PULSE DIR PWR pins.
    Hopefully someone will have some info about that.

    I am curious about the 80V your drivers ran at. I only have one output from my transformer at 24V on which the controller and drivers run. Did you have 80V and 24V outputs in your system?



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    One way to find out the signal levels is to get it running then put a voltmeter on the DIR line. Then change the direction and see what the voltage does. It can only be 5 or 12 volts. And the high probability is for 5 volts. For PWR just stick the voltmeter on it. Pulse and Dir are most likely similar to each other..

    My transformer put out about 50 some volts AC that when rectified gives me close to 80 VDC. I am running old NEMA 42 steppers that came with the mill. I don't know the other voltages coming off the transformer as I gave up early and got rid of everything.

    Here is some pictures of how I got rid of Centronics completely off my mill. It cost less than $300 and runs much smoother and quieter.

    Excello Knee Mill Retrofit | Carpenterswoodworking.com

    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    I had the same rational as you about using multi-meter on the dir line but I got some unexpected readings which is why I am questioning what the signal to the driver boards should look like. My scope isn't working right now so I cant see the signal either.

    To clarify.. did your original CNC4 setup use 80VDC or just your new upgraded setup?



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Yes, my original CNC4 ran at 80VDC. Now the manual says 50 VDC but it measured 80 volts. I think they confused the AC output of the transformer with the rectified DC output. That is why I set up the retrofit for 80 volts also.

    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    That makes sense. Your CNC4 was powering a decent size mill. Mine is only for a hobby router so its all 24VDC.
    The transformer has several leads (some unused) so I might be able to get a higher Voltage if I can figure out how its wound. I don't plan on playing with it for now, if at all, as 24VDC is likely sufficient and I have more pressing issues.

    I had a look at the circuit around the driver inputs. It's definitely 5V. I was likely getting odd readings before because its sinking input so 0v (ground) per pulse and open (or current limited?) when there isn't active pulse. So the meter would not show 5V.

    I hope the inputs are simple pulses as in modern controllers.



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Do you have the Cencomm serial comm software manual? If not I have the manual and it shows what should go on screen if the comms are working correctly.

    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    Hmm. I have the CNC4 manual. I don't have a Cencomm specific manual.

    I want to try serial communication today so if its not much trouble I'd like to have it.

    Thanks,
    Alex



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    I've been away for a while. Did you get this thing running?

    John C
    carpenterswoodworking.com


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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    I've been waiting on a break out board and its finally here.

    In the mean time I've probed the signals going to the driver boards at it seems it's the usual 5 HI 0 Low type stuff. A LOW pulse is sent for each step.
    I am assuming mach 3 can be configured to send LOW pulses for each step.

    I'll try wiring it up and testing soon.



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talex View Post
    Hi All,

    I am now the proud owner of a pretty cool old midsize semi hobby CNC router 3 axis mill.
    The model name is Phoenix II made around the early 90s by a company named Magnum.
    From what I gather it uses a cnc 4 controller by centroid and the driver boards are marked with MICRO1.

    Anyone have the software to operate this thing?

    Also any information about the MICRO1 board would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Alex


    Hi,

    I have some used software (old/new),

    PM to me for more details.



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    Default Re: Software for old educational CNC router PHOENIX II by MAGNUM. centrum / micro1

    FYI.

    I wired a simple break out board with the MICRO 1 drivers and all runs great via MACH 3. =D



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