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  1. #21
    S.N.A.F.U. miljnor's Avatar
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    cant wait to hear how it etches!

    keep us informed!

    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"


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    Great work. Can't wait to see how the pcb turns out.
    Now if it would work with some sort of carrier system it could solve a lot of your alignment problems and allow you to use small pieces of board. Something like double sided tape on the board and a thick mylar sheet. It would depend on how the feed rollers engage. Maybe a piece of board along the two outside edges of the mylar sheet.
    Paul



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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Hey Russell, your heading in the direction of Vacpress(I think it was) with a self propelled printer. I can see it now, wandering round the workshop, printing blank verse over your shoes and off down the path, leaving trails of sonnets as it goes......

    John
    Funny you say that, I had thought it would be interesting to be able to set it up on wheels and print on anything, kinda like those old hand held scanners you used to roll along and get an image, but printing instead of scanning, might be a bit hard to hold, these things move pretty fast, might have to hook Mach up to it and slow the feedrate down...lol



    Quote Originally Posted by chich2 View Post
    Good one Russ! The quality of the print is perfect. You should produce some real fine PCB's with that baby!!!!!

    Chich
    Hope so, got a bit of work to go yet, but its happening...


    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodan View Post
    "There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those that don't."

    Lol! I bet there aren't more than 10100 people that really understand that here
    Lol maybe, but those 20 are in the "know"


    Quote Originally Posted by miljnor View Post
    cant wait to hear how it etches!

    keep us informed!
    Its gonna take me a few days but you guys will be the first to know!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by paulC View Post
    Great work. Can't wait to see how the pcb turns out.
    Now if it would work with some sort of carrier system it could solve a lot of your alignment problems and allow you to use small pieces of board. Something like double sided tape on the board and a thick mylar sheet. It would depend on how the feed rollers engage. Maybe a piece of board along the two outside edges of the mylar sheet.
    Paul
    Yup that is the plan, either card or sheetmetal carrier, with alignment (strips of card/sheetmetal) in one corner (0,0) and able to fit any size board, as you mention the feed rollers are the problem, but I have a little plan for those... I will show you if it works, and probably show you the ashes if it catches fire

    Russell.



  4. #24
    Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Spray the rollers with surfboard grip spray, or whatever you call it.
    I've been looking at friction drives the last couple of days, and that seems to be the cheapest way to go !
    John

    It's like doing jigsaw puzzles in the dark.
    Enjoy today's problems, for tomorrow's may be worse.


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    Russell,

    Good job, looks like your well on your way.
    Just thought I would point out a couple of things
    in case you were not aware of them.

    The two guys who initially did the write up on the
    PCB printer can be found hanging around the Yahoo
    Homebrew PCB group. A lot of discussion on printing
    directly to copper, what ink makes the best resist etc.

    I’ve been keeping my eyes open for one of those printers,
    I may have to look harder now that I have a bunch of 0.010”
    & 0.024” double sided PCB stock, I got from a friend closing
    his electronics store.

    I’m starting to wonder about two old Epson 660s I have
    collecting dust.

    BTW greybeard. We were packing a U-Haul with TINY boxes
    of parts the other night (no interior light in the truck) and
    guess what I thought of . . . "Like doing jigsaw puzzles in the dark"

    Mike_L

    When I was younger I thought I knew EVERYTHING,
    NOW, the older I get the more I find out I don’t know!


  6. #26
    Member greybeard's Avatar
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    You've got it, Mike
    John

    It's like doing jigsaw puzzles in the dark.
    Enjoy today's problems, for tomorrow's may be worse.


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    this is definitly a cool project. but isnt there a printer that will print the back of cds? seems like that would be the place to start?

    Lemon Curry??


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    Cheers Mike, I was going to contact those guys once it was finished to say thanks, or if I needed some help. I think it would be a lot easier to hack into an old printer, doing this to a brand new one is a little unnerving, but I am past the worst of it now, I am busy at work at the moment but hopefully the weekend will being results.

    Erase, I had looked at those printers but they seemed to only be able to do small (CD size strangely enough) sized boards, I think the reason they chose the Epson is the ease of dismantling, not too many switches, optic sensors, little springs that go Ptwaaang !!!! when you open a cover you shouldn't have, plus you can fit a large sheet through, mine should take about a 230mm wide sheet without too much hassle.

    Russell.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodan View Post
    "There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those that don't."

    Lol! I bet there aren't more than 10100 people that really understand that here

    There are at least 11.

    Aaron



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    Quote Originally Posted by pastera View Post
    There are at least 11.

    Aaron
    Make that 00000011.00000101 I can understand it,
    I just can't THINK in it.

    Mike_L

    When I was younger I thought I knew EVERYTHING,
    NOW, the older I get the more I find out I don’t know!


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    Quote Originally Posted by scratch_6057 View Post
    Make that 00000011.00000101 I can understand it,
    I just can't THINK in it.
    Its starting to make my head hurt.
    You wouldn't think that once upon a time I used to teach computer engineers division and multiplication in Hex. It seems a sad thing to admit to.
    Paul



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    Hey, I take it you have seen the laser transfer method, There is a guy selling them real cheap in the states (www.profounddevices.com) , ($15USD for 25 Sheets +P&P) he is also selling a machine for 'printing' the PCB's (from what I can see he is using a laminating machine to 'iron' on the transfers) then you just etch it with ferric chloride etc like normal. The results seem quite impressive.
    Of course another option is to mill pcb's; this is a cnc forum right



  13. #33
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    From what I have read direct printing will give me better resolution, also cuts out a step in the process, making for quicker development, I have already milled a few boards, works well but again I want better results, I am going to be using SMD components and through hole plating.

    Russell.



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    Through hole plating. Now thats something I want to know a bit more about.
    Have you got a diy method for this?
    Paul



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    It is a work in progress, there are a few options, but I want the process to be simple and quick, once the printer is up and running properly I will be making a decision on it. I believe you can get small copper "rivets" that just happen to fit perfectly into the "micro" type clutch pencil's, but I haven't really looked into that any further. There are also chemical bath type methods... I will look into it.

    I made up a stand for the printer yesterday and screwed it down, just have to draw up a paper feed tray and mill it out on my router and I'm in business.

    Russell.



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    Default Re: Through Hole Plating

    I’m going to try to copy a post from Yahoo Homebrew_PCB Group
    Which points to one method of THP. I read up on it at one time but don’t
    have time to re read right now. If I recall it involves a conductive “ink”
    that is vacuumed thru the holes and cured. A adhesive film is used on the
    surfaces of the board to prevent the “ink” from getting on places it shouldn’t
    be. If you can build your own vacuum system then the “ink” could be purchased
    separately (but it was a little expensive for me).

    _____________ Copy From Yahoo Homebrew PCB Group ___________

    Through Hole Plating Alternative (LPKF proconduct)

    Hi,

    http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/Thro...proconduct.htm

    I think none of you are aware of this product.
    I have a board which is through hole plated using
    this product. There is no fault in any via.

    After melted once in oven only at 160C, it will no
    more
    melt any further during soldering. It becomes like
    ceramic.

    According to a person in Turkey which uses this
    product (the same person who sent me the board) says;

    "You can through hole plate 0.4 mm holes with an
    ordinary FR4 with 1.6 mm thickness. You can
    through hole plate 0.2 mm holes if you use 0.8 mm
    thickness board. Because aspect ratio is 1/4"

    It worth to give a try. I will inform you later,

    Dr.

    ___________ End COPY ___________________________

    Mike_L

    When I was younger I thought I knew EVERYTHING,
    NOW, the older I get the more I find out I don’t know!


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    Thanks for the link Mike, I had a quick look and it looks simple enough, I wonder if you could use it without the film, just by "squeezing" some in the holes required, then cooking.

    I will investigate further when the screaming settles down a bit later on tonight (3 young kids!!!)

    Cheers.

    Russell.



  18. #38
    Registered C88mod's Avatar
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    Default via paste.

    Try some super fine copper powder (325 mesh) mixed with good solder paste
    sqeeged through the holes with a rubber ?bondo? type applicator. clean surface of board, then cook.
    you may have to experiment the copper/solderpaste ratio for best results.



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    Hmm I'm thinking the household toaster oven might be meeting with an "unfortunate accident" sometime soon hehe

    Thanks C88mod, is C88 linked in any way to the Epson Stylus C88 by any chance ?

    Cheers.

    Russell.



  20. #40
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    Hmm I'm thinking the household toaster oven might be meeting with an "unfortunate accident" sometime soon hehe
    I have an old munsey flip toaster oven just for that. (And folgers brand hot air pencil

    Thanks C88mod, is C88 linked in any way to the Epson Stylus C88 by any chance ?
    Why, yes it is.
    My C88+ was modded with little effort.
    (keep the thing intact to keep most of the dust out.)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hacking A Printer To Directly Print PCB's-pict0014-jpg   Hacking A Printer To Directly Print PCB's-pict0013-jpg  


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