Geckodrive: Back to Basics and Price Drops

[CoAMarcus]

Since Geckodrive started we have tried to be three things: economical, high quality, and have support for all products and applications. Slowly, over the years our products maintained only two of those things as the prices climbed due to higher cost of manufacturing. With competition from countries that have much lower labor costs increasing we are doubling down on the commitment to low prices by immediately slashing ours, beginning with the G201X and the G540. We have already lowered our G251X and G250X prices, and we are going to evaluate our most popular products to see how low we can go in single unit quantities.

The G201, our first drive, had a single unit price of only $99, which was lower than nearly any other drive on the market. Right now our G251X has a single unit price of $59, and we are going to bring the G201X from $127 to $99 as well. Our most popular end-user product, the G540, will get a price cut from $299 to $269, saving everyone $30 per unit. This will make American made motor controls affordable for most users, while maintaining our high quality standards and excellent technical support.

In addition to this we are increasing our standard warranty period from one year to three years. All drives are grandfathered in to this so you do not have to do anything to take advantage of this. This includes our famous “one time, stuff happens” policy of replacing a destroyed drive no matter what its cause of death was. We will also continue our policy of never charging for repairs; if your drive is fixable we will do so for free. Everything written above applies to the drive no matter where it was purchased so you can buy our product packaged with third party products with peace of mind knowing you have our full warranty backing you.

In a few short weeks we will be launching our new website that is designed to be equal parts store and equal parts technical resource. We are writing new documentation and application notes that expand on our Step Motor Basics Guide and creating a whole new series called CNC Basics. Our website will be a mix of information for OEMs and end-users alike and we hope to add any user requested features quickly.

Now is the part that we are most interested in. What is it you want to see from Geckodrive? What can we improve on? We want to do everything we can to be the best choice out there for motor controls, so let us know what we can do to improve.

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[CoAMarcus]

The pricing changes we will be implementing immediately are the following:

G201X: Was $127, now $99
G210X: Was $147, now $113
G203V: Was $154, now $121
G213V: Was $174, now $135
G214: Was $167, now $131
G251X: Was $89, now $59
G250X: Was $81, now $56
G540: Was $299, now $269

We have also implemented price breaks beginning at four units due to customer requests from our survey we sent out. All of this officially went live today, and puts our new single unit prices lower than our typical sale pricing.

[LeeWay]

Ahh. Even better pricing for outstanding products. Thanks for the commitment to excellence.

[rcheli]

I just bought a G203V not long ago and the one thing that would have been nice would have been to have a set of current resistors come with the drive rather than having to order them separately. When I build my next control cabinet I'm going to replace the two KL drive with Geckos. I love how small those drivers are.

John

[CoAMarcus]

John,

Awesome, that's the kind of feedback we're looking for. One problem with including resistors with something like the G203V is that it ONLY uses external resistors, so we'd have to include about fifteen different values, fourteen of which would go unused by the customer. We have a resistor pack for the G251 and G540 that we may make standard with the drive and the G201X uses a DIP switch for current set, but the G203V uses an older way of setting current. I'll check on Monday and see if there's any way way of including four or five or so of the most common values with the drive. What is the current setting of the motors you are using? We're looking for our drives to be a plug and play as possible, and I think that would go a long way.

[ShallowPass]

Cheap, easy, good. Pick two.

I know I'll be a dissenting voice here, but don't cut your prices unless you have already amortized the r&d investment or your just price gouging. You're never going to compete cost wise with China. But I still am going to buy your product because there are two variables in the cost/value decision radio.

I love that you are connecting with actual costumers as part of your product development efforts. As it is clear you already appreciate that all great companies are customer driven, not product driven.

Personally, I'm building my first machine so have decided to go cost over quality to start. You don't get a BMW for your first car, unless your an as*h*le. That said, my goal is to build a BMW soon and your product will be at the core.

If you can't tell, I'm a DIYer and a nerd so would like to see a move beyond serial and db25. Your core clientele might feel differently, and you are not the only horse in that race, but it's old technology and not used friendly.

Eagerly subscribed to this thread.

[ShallowPass]

John,

Awesome, that's the kind of feedback we're looking for. One problem with including resistors with something like the G203V is that it ONLY uses external resistors, so we'd have to include about fifteen different values, fourteen of which would go unused by the customer. We have a resistor pack for the G251 and G540 that we may make standard with the drive and the G201X uses a DIP switch for current set, but the G203V uses an older way of setting current. I'll check on Monday and see if there's any way way of including four or five or so of the most common values with the drive. What is the current setting of the motors you are using? We're looking for our drives to be a plug and play as possible, and I think that would go a long way.

Drop down option for the value your need. Great value add. Pennies of cost.

[RCaffin]

Hi Marcus

You may be placing too much importance on the price. Easy to say that of course, but you will never manage to compete with China on price ALONE. So don't try - don't even start down the race to the bottom. We don't want you there. Go in the other direction: quality.

What Gecko can offer are the following:
Support for customers with problems
Reliability of product
Performance

What can Gecko offer for the future? Quite a few things.
* Support for dual-encoder feedback: normal encoder on the motor for stability, and a linear encoder on the axis itself for position. You will need a bigger connector for the extra signals, and maybe a bigger FPGA as well.
* A more sophisticated control algorithm which can cut out the vibrating dither of just a few encoder edges (which gets to be very annoying at times). To be sure, that might mean the servo driver stops with the ball-screw a few pulses away from where it is meant to be, but at 0.8 microns per stop on my machine - I would not be fussed.
* A spindle servo drive using pulse/dir instead of the ubiquitous but totally non-linear PWM control. Yes, that means an AB encoder on the spindle. Which means you may also need to include an optional pre-scaler on the encoder input. On the other hand, you may then be able to get really low spindle speeds, which might be nice.

I suggest you stick with the basic transformer/bridge/cap power supply idea for all uniits and not try to handle a SWPS supply - too much hassle there.

Cheers
Roger

[harryn]

Hi, this is a feedback related to the 540 product input voltage maximum.

I build mobile auxiliary power systems that internally are 48 VDC (from 4 each 12 volt batteries wired in series). These feed an inverter and some other items.

It would be really convenient if this nominal 48 VDC from the battery pack could be fed directly to the stepper motor controller. The challenge is that under charge conditions, the peak voltage is closer to the 56 - 58 volt range vs the 50 volt max.

I don't know what would be involved, but if the 540 could work from this slightly higher voltage range, it would be nice because it is pretty low noise DC and would make it easy to use in portable conditions.

The individual axis drivers of course can handle the higher voltage and I have a few of those, but I recently was working on a friends' system with the 540 and it would have been handy to have the slightly higher voltage capability.

Thanks

Harry

[Goemon]

I'd like to see a G540-like product for more powerful Nema 34 motors. There is a reason why the g540 is so popular (aside from the fact that it is an excellent product from a great company) and that is convenience / how easy it is to set-up.

I would also like to see a more "complete" product with a built-In power supply (and power cable). Given the target market, the more plug in and play the better. The other electronics we buy come ready to use with built in power cords etc. I would probably avoid buying a new TV if I had to solder cables and fit resistors myself. I don't see why hobby-level CNC electronics have to be so spartan....

A 5 axis version of the g540 would good too. A lot of people use two motors on their long axis which limits the upgrade potential with the current g540. Affordable hobby-level 4th and 5th axis kits are common these days so it would be good to have a way to upgrade without buying a whole new G540 or a second breakout board. Maybe it just needs extra space on the board to add an extra one or two motor drives.

That's my $0.02.... I like things that are modular, upgradable and easy to set up.

[RCaffin]

I don't see why hobby-level CNC electronics have to be so spartan....
Cost may have something to do with it.
We still get novices wanting a 4-axis MILL for <$1000.
Me, I prefer modular rather than fully integrated as it makes replacements and changes and upgrades easier.

However ... is there any way to include both anti-dither AND auto-tuning in the next model after the 320? Very pretty please!

Cheers
Roger

[ger21]

I would also like to see a more "complete" product with a built-In power supply (and power cable).

Different motors require different voltage requirements, which would then require multiple versions of the drive, which raises the cost. Eventually, the ones that don't see enough to be profitable, will no longer be available. You'd end up with one power supply voltage, which would then result in fewer sales.
Then consider that power supplies are much larger than a G540 by themselves, so you 's be taking a compact unit, increasing it's size by at least 3x, adding additional cooling requirements, .....

There are only two wires to connect a power supply to the G540. It doesn't get much easier than that.

I'd like to see a G540-like product for more powerful Nema 34 motors.

Leasdshine makes them.

[CoAMarcus]

I'd like to see a G540-like product for more powerful Nema 34 motors.

We have a pretty decent announcement to make soon regarding this; we have a huge new product nearing completion. The long and the short of it is a new version of the G540 that will run motors up to 7A with a few surprise features.

Our new website has launched, and we will be adding more information for end-users on our "HOBBY" page that is linked from our homepage. We are always looking for suggestions for things to add, so let me know if you want anything. The stuff we want to put on there are things that YOU would have wanted to know when you were just starting to machine things or build a machine. What was your hardest lesson learned the hard way that you wish you were warned about? What is a mistake that you made when you first setup your machine? That is the kind of stuff we are looking to put on there to save people time.

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit! I am currently in Birmingham, UK and just finished the Drives and Controls show. I am looking forward to getting back and getting to work on more things on the site!

[CoAMarcus]

Hi, this is a feedback related to the 540 product input voltage maximum.

I build mobile auxiliary power systems that internally are 48 VDC (from 4 each 12 volt batteries wired in series). These feed an inverter and some other items.

It would be really convenient if this nominal 48 VDC from the battery pack could be fed directly to the stepper motor controller. The challenge is that under charge conditions, the peak voltage is closer to the 56 - 58 volt range vs the 50 volt max.

I don't know what would be involved, but if the 540 could work from this slightly higher voltage range, it would be nice because it is pretty low noise DC and would make it easy to use in portable conditions.

Harry,

Well, the G540 is de-rated to 50VDC so that would likely not damage anything. The drop dead voltage is closer to 60VDC so if your 56VDC is clean (with 0% ripple), something a battery typically is, then you should be fine running the G540 at that voltage. Worst case scenario is you blow up the motherboard trying it out and we can fix it for you for free.

[asuratman]

new version of the G540 that will run motors up to 7A with a few surprise features.

What voltage ? Enough to run NEMA 34 at almost any speed with hi torque

[mercurysinking]

We have a pretty decent announcement to make soon regarding this; we have a huge new product nearing completion. The long and the short of it is a new version of the G540 that will run motors up to 7A with a few surprise features.

Great news, I have been looking at the G540 vs. the Leadshine MX4660 - the Leadshine has some pretty strong advantages over the G540, but I would prefer supporting a US based company if I can. Do you have an estimate of when the announcement will be? I have about 1-2 months before I will need my driver, so maybe the timing will line up.

[RCaffin]

The thing I like about Gecko vs a Chinese company is that I can email Marcus and get a useful reply.

Quality products are of course essential for a CNC, but quality SERVICE is of equal value! (or more?)

Cheers
Roger

[Goemon]

Different motors require different voltage requirements, which would then require multiple versions of the drive, which raises the cost. Eventually, the ones that don't see enough to be profitable, will no longer be available. You'd end up with one power supply voltage, which would then result in fewer sales.
Then consider that power supplies are much larger than a G540 by themselves, so you 's be taking a compact unit, increasing it's size by at least 3x, adding additional cooling requirements, .....

There are only two wires to connect a power supply to the G540. It doesn't get much easier than that.



Leasdshine makes them.

I know Leadshine makes one but, I read that the Gecko product is better. I have no direct experience with the Leadshine stuff though. Are you saying they are comparable (in terms of quality and performance)? Either way, there should be a Gecko option too.

I know that different motors require different voltages but that is an easily solvable problem, as are all the other issues raised regarding making a more complete, user friendly and upgradable product.

A variable voltage psu, or offering a small number of options to give customers a choice, for example.

When you build a PC, you use a psu with a number of different voltage out slots so you can power all the different peripherals in the case. There is a far larger number of potential variables and range of devices to power and yet, you can build a pc without ever touching a bare wire or holding a soldering iron.

The issue of variable voltage requirements was solved decades ago. Safe external PSU's with standard connectors were available in the 80's.

[LeeWay]

There are solutions if you want CNC electronics in a can. Or Plug and Play. Or complete electronics packages. It's when you want or need other features or options that are not included in those that you start to see a need for something else. Sourcing all of your own parts and building your own system is generally the path taken in such cases. The Geckodrive products are part of such a system. A high quality part and the heart of such systems. Power supplies to suit any need are available. You can even mount everything on Din rails to make it very easy to build an electronics enclosure and system. All without ever needing to use a soldering iron.

If the new product is like the G540, but has the beef of 4 203V's, then I suspect they will get a lot of sales. Could call them G609V's or G812V's.

[Goemon]

We have a pretty decent announcement to make soon regarding this; we have a huge new product nearing completion. The long and the short of it is a new version of the G540 that will run motors up to 7A with a few surprise features.

Our new website has launched, and we will be adding more information for end-users on our "HOBBY" page that is linked from our homepage. We are always looking for suggestions for things to add, so let me know if you want anything. The stuff we want to put on there are things that YOU would have wanted to know when you were just starting to machine things or build a machine. What was your hardest lesson learned the hard way that you wish you were warned about? What is a mistake that you made when you first setup your machine? That is the kind of stuff we are looking to put on there to save people time.

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit! I am currently in Birmingham, UK and just finished the Drives and Controls show. I am looking forward to getting back and getting to work on more things on the site!

That is great news. I like to support products like the Gecko drives where the company is making the effort to produce quality products at prices we can afford.

If you can make it so no additional resistors are needed, it would be a big bonus. I put off setting up my g540 so many times because I couldn't face the boring task of making custom cables. If CNC Router Parts didn't sell ready-made g540 cables, my G540 would probably still be sitting in the box somewhere.

Dealing with all the wiring and researching which cables go where is my least favorite part of my CNC build by miles. If we have to figure that out on the new product, please, please, please, label every screw terminal with a letter or number, and then include a one pager clearly stating which wires go to which terminals. By "clearly", I mean something like "wire one goes from terminal A to terminal G, wire two goes from terminal C to Terminal F, resistor one goes between wire two and terminal F" etc.

Do you guys have any plans to release your own breakout boards to add additional functionality (like relays) to the existing Gecko drives?
If you do, I would like to see a 24v out to power spindles fans. I checked and most of the electric fan spindles require the same 24v psu.