G540 Troubleshooting

[vernn]

I have a G540 that I'm trying to get to control a couple of relays, but I'm not having any luck. I'm trying to troubleshoot, but I could use some advice and information. Attached is a drawing of my control box. Here's what I know...
- These are the relays that I'm using.
- I'm using an ethernet smoothstepper (ESS).
- I use a laptop to connect to the ESS.
- I have enabled the Outputs in Mach3 - Output #1 (VFD): port 1, pin 17; Output #2 (outlets for water pump and shop vac): port 1, pin 1.
- I have the Mist button assigned to Output #2 just to see if I can get it to activate the relays for the outlets.
- When I activate the Mist button on the diagnostics page in Mach3, it shows the red flashing indicator, but activity from the relays.
- When I take a reading with DMM while G540 is powered on pins 12 and 5 & 6, I get ~4 mv dc and resistance is ~104K ohm.
- I get the same resistance reading with the unit powered off.
- I get these same readings regardless of what Mach3 is doing.
- I tried touching a jumper to pins 12 and 5 & 6 and nothing seems to change.
- I tried using the .xml file located on the Gecko site in case I just didn't have software setup right, but it behaves exactly the same.
- I'm thinking about pulling the drive out of my box and place on bench and connect to PC, parallel port with a BOB and see if I get a different behavior to see if this is being caused by the ESS. Thoughts?

Questions that I have...
1. What should I be seeing as DMM readings (vdc, resistance) when the G540 is powered/not powered?
2. What would indicate if the G540 is damaged?
3. Anything else that I'm just not thinking about?

Really appreciate any assistance or ideas that anyone may have on this issue.

Thanx!

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[CoAMarcus]

vernn,

The OUTPUTs on the G540 are functionally SPST switches to GND. You can set your multimeter to a continuity test and measure between TERMINAL 5 or 6 and TERMINAL 12; you should read OPEN if the G540 is not powered. If the G540 is being toggled on those pins you should read between OPEN and CONTINUITY on the multimeter. What are you getting from your multimeter with those measurements?

[coherent]

What are the specs on you relays? I haven't studied your diagram closely, but can't see what's powering your relays.
Not sure what type of dc power supply you're using, but get some ssr's rated for your dc power and capable of your 110 or 220 power load to switch on/off your vacuum, pump etc and wire them like this...
http://www.homanndesigns.com/pdfs/EN010_V8.pdf

[vernn]

Thanks for the assistance! With the G540 not powered, continuity test shows as open between pins 12 and 5 & 6. With the G540 powered and with the Mist button pushed (configured for output #2, port 1, pin 1) and the light indicator blinking in Mach3, I get the same...open line. This would seem to indicate that either both outputs are bad (but resistance test indicates they are fine) or the G540 isn't receiving the signal to activate. This would perhaps mean that something is going on with my ESS or perhaps software issue and I don't think that is the case. I think my next step is to try and test without the ESS in place so I can rule that out or not. Would you agree with my rationale?

[vernn]

Spec sheet the relays are attached for ref, but in general, the coils are rated for 48vdc, same as my power supply; contacts are rated for 250vac; current is rated for 20mA; control signal is rated 0v - 0.5v (relay no action); 2.5v - 24v (relay action). So, as I'm sitting here and writing this, something is occurring to me...check me on this...is this saying that in order for the relay to activate that there would need to be a 2.5v - 24v control signal? And if that is the case, and pins 5 & 6 go to ground when activated, it would never see the required voltage to activate the relay? That doesn't necessarily explain why I'm showing an open line on DMM at the G540 when the pins are supposed to be activated. I need to get the correct behavior out of the G540 before I can determine if I have a relay issue or not. I think I'm going to have to pull the unit and test on the bench so I can try and get the correct behavior from G540 and then start incorporating the other pieces back in until I see the issue again. I would like to know your thoughts on what I wrote above on the relay issue. I know that you mentioned to get some other relays, but before I just replace one relay with another, I would like to understand a little better. Thank you for the assistance!

[john-100]

as the G540 outputs are the open drain connections to a FET transistor that is either open circuit or connected to ground

you will need to add a pull up resistor between the relay boards +48V supply and the relay boards input from the G540 output terminal

I would first try using a resistor of 4K7 (4700 ohms) so the G540's output when on will pass about 10 mA to ground

Note
the relay will be energised when the G540 output is off !!!!!

if you only need to use 1 relay
then you could use the the first relay on the board as an " inverter" to drive the second relay

the result is the last relay will be energised when the G540 output is on (at Ground potential)



seeing the board has normal through hole components
its possible to modify the relay board by removing the transistor and 4K7 resistor
and linking the vacant transistors collector terminal to the boards input terminal



usual G540 output wiring to 48V relays




john

[coherent]

Yes, as per the schematic I added, there has to be DC voltage supplied to the relay. The simplest option is to have a relay that accepts 48 volts on the DC side... so a 48v relay and use the the same power supply that you are using to power the G540 at pin 11. Your relay is controlled basically by pull down (ground?) using from the switchable G540 pins 4-5. I didn't see any DC power to the DC Pos side of your relay. The neg will be from pin 4-5. I may be missing something in your drawing/explanation.

When you set up mach remember it's not using your G540 or BoB pin numbers but the DB25 pin numbers. Whatever you've assigned to those pins.
Here's a very simple video that may help.

[vernn]

There is 48v going to the relays, however, it appears it requires a powered control signal, which isn't what the G540 provides as I understand it now. So, I'm definitely going to be changing those our for something like in the video you provide, which I have seen before. I still have the issue of the G540 not behaving correctly though. if I have the Output activate for whichever pin (5 or 6), then I should have continuity between 12 and the other pin (5 or 6). That isn't the behavior I'm getting right now...it remains OPEN regardless of what Mach3 says. I've come to the conclusion that either I'm having a software issue or the ESS isn't behaving. I'm going to hook up straight parallel port to see if I get different behavior. Thanx!

[john-100]

the very least to operate the relay board when its connected to the G540
you will need to add a 4K7 pull up resistor



this is just the same as the top half of the first diagram in post 6

the pull up resistor provides the current ,
the open drain G540 output can't

John

[vernn]

Thank you for taking the time to point this out and I understand, but the behavior that you pointed out that it would be energized when the output from the G540 is off isn't the behavior that I would prefer. These things are cheap...I'm just going to swap them out. I do appreciate the information as it was instructive. Thanx!

[vernn]

I was finally able to get my pc up and running again that had a pci parallel port card that I used to use. So using just the parallel cable from the pc to the g540 which eliminates the ESS, it behaves correctly. When the pins are not active, no continuity. When they are active there is continuity. I appears there is something going on with the ESS...now I'm going to have to start troubleshooting there. At least I feel that I have narrowed the problem down. Anyone have any ideas on why the ESS wouldn't be passing the signals? It appears that it's only the outputs...everything else works fine and I'm using all the pins on the g540. Sure appreciate everyone's assistance!

[john-100]

While its disappointing to find you are having trouble with the ESS
its good that you had a working PC with a parallel printer port to narrow down the problem

not having an ethernet or USB smooth stepper, I am not sure I can help
assuming you are only using the first 2 ports
it may be worth re-loading the drivers & software
from what I have read in other posts here sometimes either Mach or ESS software does not always install correctly

for now we need a smooth stepper user to chip in

John

[coherent]

Does your board have any jumpers pins that switch pin configurations? Not having your specific board(s), I can't think of anything else unless it has a watch dog or other such feature that is not set up correctly and is interrupting the circuit. Suppose it could simply be a bad board. Good luck.

[vernn]

As I indicated in an earlier post, I was able to use another computer with a parallel port to test to see if the G540 behaved as it should and it did. It occurred to me that perhaps the issue was with the laptop that I have been using. I have been using it for while and I didn't really see how it would be the issue, but you know how that goes...so, using the computer that I ran the parallel test on and configured it to use the ESS and the same issue came back. Tried another ribbon cable between the ESS and G540, no help. Not really sure where to go from here...opened a thread on Warp9 (ESS) forums. If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears!

@coherent - It does have jumpers, but none that change the pin configuration.

Thanx!