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Thread: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

  1. #21
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    The $140 was a one time special price
    The regular price is $200. It's a one time payment, no subscription.

    Gerry

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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi...is Mach4 actually being used in it's still being developed form?

    How user friendly compared to Mach3 for a noob is UCCNC?

    Keeping my options open for future ....what's the price and usage stipulations for UCCNC......would a computer illiterate be able to use it compared to the way Mach3 is used?

    Is the screen format vastly different to Mach3?......how steep is the learning curve compared to a scant knowledge of basic usage with Mach3?

    The short question would be.......would UCCNC be an easy change over and cost effective for hobby use from Mach3 if the need arose?

    BTW.......thanks for your time for all the questions etc.

    OK Ger....some questions answered in the CNCwoodworker link on the bottom of your page for the screenset.
    Ian.



  3. #23
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi...is Mach4 actually being used in it's still being developed form?
    Yes. I haven't followed Mach4 development recently, but from what I was seeing, more Mach4 users were people that had never used Mach3. Most Mach3 users were holding off for a more complete Mach4.

    A UCCNC license is $60.
    UCCNC does NOT work with a parallel port, so you need to buy one of their motion controllers, which range from about $120 - $200.
    The license is tied to the motion controller, and the software will only work with that motion controller.

    You can download the software and run it in demo mode, to see what the difference are. It's really very similar to Mach3.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #24
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi, sounds good.....$60 is very economical .....I have a USB connection to my mill with a small desktop computer and just bought a Win 7 32 bit laptop for $120, to cut out the trail of cables etc, which has both serial and USB ports.

    As I'm already USB connected to my mill does that mean I already have a motion controller but need another one specifically for UCCNC?

    I'm off to bed now as it's 4AM....zzzzzz
    Ian.



  5. #25
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    You need a motion controller made by CNC Drive.

    I was wondering if you ever slept.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    It helps to know a bit of the real underlying history for Mach3. Yes, it has been written up in "Mach3 Internals - A Plug-In Writers Bible".

    Art created it for himself out of frustration at the very high cost of what was then available for CNC. It started as EZCNC, became Mastern where n=1 to 5, than Mach. A long evolutionary path, a bit like Windows.

    Certain design decisions were made right at the start which were a bit unfortunate, and in at least one case they led to unresolvable internal conflicts. (I am talking about mach here, although the same could be said for Windows.) These conflicts are responsible for some of the remaining DESIGN bugs - which can NOT be resolved. Mach4 is a total rewrite from scratch to eliminate all those problems. It ain't easy though, and I am sure it was a painful decision.

    However, the real core of Mach3 at the start was that Art managed to overcome the 'timeshare' design of Windows to force the PC to become a limited Real Time system. The PP driver which Mach uses over-rides Windows and uses a special timer on the X86 chip! It has to in order to get that nice smooth pulse train for the stepper motors. (Servos came later.) This is why Mach3 runs on XP and W7 but cannot run in its original form in later versions of Windows: the later OSes will not let the PP driver code be installed. Yes, I believe you can run Mach3 under later versions of Windows if you use an external pulse engine such as the ESS instead of the PP driver. Other design problems mean you cannot run Mach3 under a 64-bit OS anyhow.

    Upgrade fees: never say never. Imagine that at some stage in the future Artsoft offered licensed Mach3 users a $50 upgrade chance, and 20,000 of them went for it. That is 20,000 * $50 = $1,000,000, just for the cost of issuing SW licences. That is $1M which they might not otherwise get.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    You need a motion controller made by CNC Drive.

    I was wondering if you ever slept.
    Hi, I've almost always been a late night bird, and since retiring the 4AM thing is normal....getting up at 10AM means I get 6 hours sleep so that's normal for me......secondly, the other side of the World is more active during our night time as it's their daytime then.

    The UCCNC is a bit of a conundrum.....if you need a separate and dedicated motion controller to run it how would you get to see a demo to decide if it's for you?

    What does a motion controller look like?.........a plug in card?....soft ware download? if I went for a demo and decided to stay with Mach 3????....what then.

    AND......if Mach4 became the program to have at last, does this also need a motion controller or will it also run as per Mach3?

    I was under the impression that the motion controller was a device that the supplier of the machine controller supplied for their device if you are USB connected and was installed on your machine when you bought it.

    If you bought a bare bones machine and then installed a Gecko controller would that have it's own motion controller to run the Gecko with USB?

    Is the motion controller something you need to have if you are connected with USB as opposed to a 15 pin serial port?

    So many questions....I apologise profusely.......many people will benefit by the answers provided no doubt.

    BTW, thanks Roger for the background history for mach3 etc.

    I expect that the now owners of Mach3 are loosely referring to the layout to produce the Mach4 better than best control software that previously was a huge success despite some iggly bits etc....even $50 for the old model that is working has to be good value.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    It helps to know a bit of the real underlying history for Mach3. Yes, it has been written up in "Mach3 Internals - A Plug-In Writers Bible".

    Art created it for himself out of frustration at the very high cost of what was then available for CNC. It started as EZCNC, became Mastern where n=1 to 5, than Mach. A long evolutionary path, a bit like Windows.

    Certain design decisions were made right at the start which were a bit unfortunate, and in at least one case they led to unresolvable internal conflicts. (I am talking about mach here, although the same could be said for Windows.) These conflicts are responsible for some of the remaining DESIGN bugs - which can NOT be resolved. Mach4 is a total rewrite from scratch to eliminate all those problems. It ain't easy though, and I am sure it was a painful decision.

    However, the real core of Mach3 at the start was that Art managed to overcome the 'timeshare' design of Windows to force the PC to become a limited Real Time system. The PP driver which Mach uses over-rides Windows and uses a special timer on the X86 chip! It has to in order to get that nice smooth pulse train for the stepper motors. (Servos came later.) This is why Mach3 runs on XP and W7 but cannot run in its original form in later versions of Windows: the later OSes will not let the PP driver code be installed. Yes, I believe you can run Mach3 under later versions of Windows if you use an external pulse engine such as the ESS instead of the PP driver. Other design problems mean you cannot run Mach3 under a 64-bit OS anyhow.

    Upgrade fees: never say never. Imagine that at some stage in the future Artsoft offered licensed Mach3 users a $50 upgrade chance, and 20,000 of them went for it. That is 20,000 * $50 = $1,000,000, just for the cost of issuing SW licences. That is $1M which they might not otherwise get.

    Cheers
    Roger
    Hi Rog, from what you've previously said, I was under the impression that Mach3 had taken a wrong turn and was driving down a blind alley with no outlet.....that would mean you can't upgrade it if it's going in the wrong direction, so they bit the bullet and decided to re-evaluate how it should have been written instead of getting deeper and deeper in the bog etc......thank the Lord it wasn't abandoned and stayed as Mach3.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    that would mean you can't upgrade it if it's going in the wrong direction, so they bit the bullet and decided to re-evaluate how it should have been written instead of getting deeper and deeper in the bog etc
    Yup, that's about it.
    The problem was that every time they tried to fix one bit, the 'fix' pranged another bit. "You can't get there from here" stuff.

    What does a motion controller look like?
    Basically, a small dedicated CPU in a little external box doing good things very, very fast, acting on high-level commands from the PC.
    No, it is (emphatically) NOT a bit of SW added to the PC.
    I think the era of plug-in cards has gone.

    The UCCNC is a bit of a conundrum.....if you need a separate and dedicated motion controller to run it how would you get to see a demo to decide if it's for you?
    Same as running Mach3 in demo mode. The SW runs but does not put out any commands to the external engine.
    At that level, UCCNC and Mach3 would look 'not very different'.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi....I think that Mach3 is in the lead in this race as you can download it for free and run it on your machine up to 500 lines for as long as you like as a hobby user provided you aren't using it for commercially.

    If UCCNC is not also a free download for hobby use, that is another kettle of fish as......it's a long field like test to decide if the packet is what you want without having first to go to the extreme of parting with dosh etc for a motion controller.........where does a motion controller fit on your machine......what if you already have one....I presume I have one on the SVM-0 I have......is it a plug in and change over thingy?

    So, would I be right in thinking that UCCNC is a control program software package (like Mach3) that is resident on my computer and needs a motion controller thing......attached where?....... for it to make whatever machine I have run with it?.....whereas Mach3 doesn't and presumably Mach4 won't either?

    BTW,,,,as Mach4 is currently being used, even though it's still evolving, is it also a free download for hobby use?

    If so, I think that as it's a bright new light at the end of the tunnel, the fact that Mach3 did wonders for the CNC hobby people is a factor that could weigh heavily in my must have list.....all things being equal etc.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    where does a motion controller fit on your machine
    Hanging off an external port like ethernet or, in this case, USB.

    UCCNC is a control program software package
    Well, yes, but it NEEDS the UC300 (or UCn00 variants) to run any HW. UCCNC cannot drive an ESS for instance.

    Mach4 as free demo package - not sure. Check web site later - it is not responding right now.

    Mach3 did wonders for the CNC hobby people
    I think some of the dinosaurs are still in shock.
    I don't know what the usage numbers are like, but mach3 did set the standard for nex-gen CNC, and is probably runnng on 100 times more machines than anything else. I THINK.

    Cheers
    Roger



  12. #32
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    WHat a motion controller does, it take over the step and direction pulse generation from the PC. THe PC sends motion commands to the motion controller, which then generates the step and direction signals. Because they are done with hardware, rather than software, the signals are more uniform, consisten, and potentially capable of much higher speeds. And they are immune to interference from the operating system or other software.

    The UCCNC is a bit of a conundrum.....if you need a separate and dedicated motion controller to run it how would you get to see a demo to decide if it's for you?
    The software runs, it just can't control a machine while in demo mode.

    What does a motion controller look like?.........a plug in card?....soft ware download? if I went for a demo and decided to stay with Mach 3????....what then.

    CNCdrive - motion controls
    CNCdrive - motion controls
    CNCdrive - motion controls


    AND......if Mach4 became the program to have at last, does this also need a motion controller or will it also run as per Mach3?
    Yes, Mach4 was designed to work with motion controllers. They do offer a parallel port option for Mach4 for $25, but it has limited functionality when compared to Mach4 running a hardware motion controller.


    If you bought a bare bones machine and then installed a Gecko controller would that have it's own motion controller to run the Gecko with USB?
    A Gecko is just a stepper drive. You need to send it step and direction signals, either from a parallel port, or a motion controller.


    Is the motion controller something you need to have if you are connected with USB as opposed to a 15 pin serial port?
    That would be 25pin parallel port.

    The only commonly used CNC control software that uses the parallel port, are Mach3 and LinuxCNC.
    With Mach3, many users are moving away from the paralel port, to external motion controllers, in order to be able to use modern PC's and Operating Systems.
    And yes, if you don't want to use the parallel port, then you need to use a motion controller.


    One thing to be aware of, is that CNC Drive motion controllers will work with UCCNC, Mach3, and soon Mach4 (under development).
    Other Mach3 motion controllers are Mach3 only.
    So, you could buy a CNC Drive motion controller to use with UCCNC, and if you preferred Mach3, you can use the same controller with Mach3. But, I think you'd find that UCCNC is a superior product, and a bargain at 1/3 the proce of Mach3.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #33
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi...thank you all for that very clear information....now I know what it's about.

    .......yeah, 25 pin not 15 pin.

    So, last question, my machine has a USB lead out to a 2 foot length of cable outside of the cabinet instead of a socket on the back panel........would this USB cable be directly connected to the motion controller module inside the cabinet...........it came with the mill and I think it will only run Mach3 as you said?

    If that is the case, then I would have to delve into the innards of the cabinet control box to change the motion controller module if I was to go for UCCNC or Mach4......I agree the price for UCCNC is extremely reasonable.

    Tomorrow I'll have a sticky beak into the innards of the mill cabinet to see what lies in there to identify the motion controller it has.....for future reference.

    I have to install another stepper driver for a future 4th axis and the VFD drive for the high speed spindle too so that's next on the to do list.
    Ian.



  14. #34
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    would this USB cable be directly connected to the motion controller module inside the cabinet.
    Yes, most likely.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi....would it be "normal" to have to pull all the electronics out of the control box to remove and fit another motion controller if I were to go for UCCNC?

    The USB connection to the motion controller I have is terminated behind the electronics module inside the control box cabinet...........I would have to remove the complete electronics module to get at it.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Ian - trust me, you have not seen a really tightly packed electronics box. I had one, and eventually discarded EVERYTHING except for the honking big power transfomer (which was down in the basement anyhow).
    My system now is laid out in a single layer so I can probe any signal I want without moving anything else (OK, I have to open the lid). And that works.

    Cheers
    Roger



  17. #37
    Gold Member daniellyall's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Ian you will need a new bob rember yours is a 32bit one tied to mach3

    <img src="https://ivxo1q-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mENMmTr_Cabc7pR0FUdB6gtbADq2JbuG4_rGy0eBQvLJx19pTi6TqMUIJN0xgOyDIc0gWoxYhS38HpbSTFGdfaK-o42IOU6jczrhDpfpCOTNGL1X6hvZCbgj0y35gqmq1YGTrWwShYGV-C7lXA2esy0Pi_WfnBSyroDLSGXwce4uSr1U7op7srdi78rispHCa_K4aFlTlJPVkkNWMfgh_Tg?width=60&height=60&cropmode=none" width="60" height="60" />

    Being Disabled is OK CNC is For fuN


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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Hi Daniel

    yours is a 32bit one [bob] tied to mach3
    Huh????? I do not understand.

    I use two of Homann's MB-02 BoBs. Each one is designed to buffer one LPT port. The BoBs have no internal
    logic' apart from simple buffer chips. The BoB has nothing to do with 32 bit or 64 bit SW in itself.

    Did you perhaps mean a new external pulse engine? I believe that the ESS and USB-SS are both designed to work with Mach3, although I see no reason why a driver for a different CNC program could not be attempted. Granted, I don't think Ian is going to attempt that :-)

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Ians not yours Roger

    <img src="https://ivxo1q-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mENMmTr_Cabc7pR0FUdB6gtbADq2JbuG4_rGy0eBQvLJx19pTi6TqMUIJN0xgOyDIc0gWoxYhS38HpbSTFGdfaK-o42IOU6jczrhDpfpCOTNGL1X6hvZCbgj0y35gqmq1YGTrWwShYGV-C7lXA2esy0Pi_WfnBSyroDLSGXwce4uSr1U7op7srdi78rispHCa_K4aFlTlJPVkkNWMfgh_Tg?width=60&height=60&cropmode=none" width="60" height="60" />

    Being Disabled is OK CNC is For fuN


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    Default Re: How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

    Oh, sure, Ian's BoBs. But 'BoB' means 'Break out board' and most of them are designed around the pinout for the LPT port. And that has nothing to do with 32 bit or 64 bit SW.
    Of course, if Ian's BoBs are NOT designed around the LPT config, then I may be up the creek. So we need to ask Ian what BoB(s) he is using. Um - if it is that simple. If, on the other hand, he is using some wierd Chinese interface with a custom design ... OK. But I still doubt that the '32 bit or 64 bit' aspect will have anything to do with it.

    Cheers
    Roger



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How to define work spaces in the G-code itself

How to define work spaces in the G-code itself