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Thread: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

  1. #21
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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    OK guys, I have come across a small conundrum that I am trying to work through, but I'm not getting it. As mentioned above, I have a safety relay and I'm using ClearPath motors. I plan to run the motor enable signals through a spare NO contact on the contactor (controlled by the safety relay). I would like to monitor the HLFB output from the Clearpath motors and use it to at least stop a program if the motor has an error. My thought was to run it to the e-stop circuit on the MB2 and also use the OSSB output on the MB2 in series with my regular e-stop.

    The conundrum is that it would seem that the system could never really enable because the HLFB would be open when the motors are disabled, but the safety relay requires the e-stop circuit to be closed before it will allow a reset. Is there a relatively simple way to read the HLFB signal in UCCNC to monitor the motors instead of using it like an e-stop? It seems like this should be straight-forward, so maybe I'm over-thinking it. Its been a busy week, so I haven't been able to actually try wiring some of this stuff up, yet.

    Thanks,
    Robert



  2. #22

    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Can't you wire them in series? I don't know what your Bob can handle voltage wise, but if it can handle the total voltage that could be returned by all of them in a worst case scenario, that's your answer!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    The electrical connection to the BOB is less of my question. My concern is that the safety relay would never reset after an e-stop or shutdown. The HLFB output would only turn on when the motor is enabled, but the motor can only be enabled when the HLFB signal is on if I use the HLFB as an e-stop signal. I am using the safety relay to make sure that the motor enable signal cannot be turned on when there is an e-stop.

    So I guess my question is how else can the HLFB signal be used to monitor the status of the motors without using it as an e-stop through the safety relay?

    Thanks,
    Robert



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Is there a relatively simple way to read the HLFB signal in UCCNC to monitor the motors instead of using it like an e-stop?
    Not sue what you'd consider simple, but you could write a macroloop in UCCNC to monitor an input?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Not sue what you'd consider simple, but you could write a macroloop in UCCNC to monitor an input?
    Or assign an input trigger.



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Yep, that would be easier.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post
    The electrical connection to the BOB is less of my question. My concern is that the safety relay would never reset after an e-stop or shutdown. The HLFB output would only turn on when the motor is enabled, but the motor can only be enabled when the HLFB signal is on if I use the HLFB as an e-stop signal. I am using the safety relay to make sure that the motor enable signal cannot be turned on when there is an e-stop.

    So I guess my question is how else can the HLFB signal be used to monitor the status of the motors without using it as an e-stop through the safety relay?

    Thanks,
    Robert
    I'm just guessing here but your question sounds almost exactly like what I was wondering when I was wiring my HLFB and E stop. My configuration, in the event of an alarm condition such as an E stop or loss of the HLFB OK signal only cuts the enable circuit to the servos. The absence of the HLFB ok signal puts the software in Reset. To get out of Reset, and re-enable the servos you have to clear the alarm condition (pull out the E stop button) and hit the Limit Override. Then the Reset can be cleared and the servos re-enabled, and the HLFB ok signal returns and things are back to normal. I'm not sure how exactly you integrate that with a safety relay. I don't use one and I feel I'm pretty well protected. But, that is obviously a matter of opinion. I'd be interested to see how you do it.

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    I've been out of town for a few days, but I now have the better part of a week to work on this project, so back to the question at hand.

    I have started wiring things up, and have a basic safety circuit in place. When I hit an e-stop, the safety relay drops out the main contactor. When I reset the e-stop button and hit the "Reset" button, the contactor closes again. That's what I was aiming for. So now I have two other elements that I want to include in the e-stop circuit input: the motor HLFB (as mentioned above), and the controller charge pump (to monitor the controller).

    I think 1Jumper10 may be on to something by using an override switch with the HLFB. I would wire the HLFB signals in series and use them as an input into the OSSD circuit on the MB2. The OSSD signal could then be either wired to the safety relay in series with the regular E-stop. Resetting the circuit would require pushing the override and reset buttons simultaneously. I may try to wire the reset button to the override input and see if the timing works out, but I'm skeptical.

    Monitoring the controller seems a little more tricky. The charge pump signal on the MB2 seems to be the right signal to monitor, but because it pulses, it triggers the safety relay. I tried setting an output trigger for one of the MB2 relays to trigger based on the charge pump output (port 1, pin 14). It worked, but the relay state kept changing due to the pulsing on the output. That's not surprising. I couldn't find another signal that made sense to use to trigger the relay. I haven't tried directly connecting the charge pump to the safety relay to see if it pulses fast enough to avoid triggering the safety relay. That is likely the next thing to try. Another thought is to add a capacitor to the charge pump output to flatten out the pulses, but that would add a delay to triggering the e-stop. Not ideal, but maybe better than not monitoring it at all.


    -Robert



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    When I checked the charge pump output on my MB2, I though I was getting a steady 24V, and not pulses? Is the LED on the MB2 solid, or flickering?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    When I checked the charge pump output on my MB2, I though I was getting a steady 24V, and not pulses? Is the LED on the MB2 solid, or flickering?
    I may be measuring something wrong, but when I measure from CP to 0V, I only get about 0.6VDC with my cheap 20 year-old Radio Shack DMM. I need to invest in a cheap oscilloscope one of these days.

    However, I tried connecting the charge pump output in series with the e-stop switch, and it seems to work. The safety relay provides about 21.5VDC out, so I used that as if it were an external power supply (see Figure 13 in the MB2 manual). I also wired one of the MB2 relays in series with this, and triggered it from the OSSD output. I couldn't wrap my brain around wiring the OSSD output in series with the CP output. It seemed like it would result in a parallel circuit instead of a series because both outputs would share the 0V in common. This should be fine as long as I don't need the relay for something else.

    So this seems pretty much solved, and I am satisfied that motor errors, controller errors and e-stop pushes will all result in a stop. I can't test the reset too well at the moment because I need another switch. I'm pretty comfortable with that, though.

    Wiring continues...

    Thanks for all the help!

    -Robert



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Was the charge pump LED on the MB2 lit up brightly?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Was the charge pump LED on the MB2 lit up brightly?
    Yes, it was as bright as the other LEDs. It definitely did not look like a fast pulsing LED. That probably indicates a constant signal, and I'm just not measuring the voltage correctly. (I'm pretty weak with electrical stuff once you throw in any sort of semi-conductor).

    So there is possibly one other thing that changed in all of this. I tried a few different settings with the charge pump signal in UCCNC. I think there are two charge pump signals in UCCNC and a check box "Charge pump always on." (I need to go back and verify this, but it will have to wait until tomorrow). I currently have both charge pump signals set to Port 2, Pin 14 and the check box is on. I had tried only setting one of the Charge Pump signals (the first one), and had tried selecting and not selecting the check box. Maybe that did something? I'll play with the settings and see what I get, now that I have it wired up in a way that works.

    Thanks,
    Robert



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    I currently have both charge pump signals set to Port 2, Pin 14 and the check box is on.
    That may be causing the issue. Just use one, not both.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    That may be causing the issue. Just use one, not both.
    I turned off one of the charge pump signals in UCCNC and everything still works.

    For some reason, when I originally tried to get this all working, I was having trouble getting the CP signal to work the way I expected it to (i.e. on when UCCNC was running, off when UCCNC was shut down.). So I made the classic mistake of changing more than one thing at a time. . I'll chalk it up to learning curve.

    FWIW, the UCCNC manual indicates that the charge pump is a 12.5kHz PWM signal. I wouldn't be able to measure that with my DMM, and it appears that my safety relay won't trigger with a signal that fast. The weird thing, to me, is that when I triggered an onboard relay with the CP signal the relay switched on and off erratically. Maybe the PWM duty cycle was low enough that it was borderline for the relay coil to pull the contacts.

    Thanks,
    Robert



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    From the brief testing I did, it appeared that the MB2 converted the PWM to a 24V signal. I'll check it again when I get a chance.
    I could be mistaken, by my 20 year old Radio Shack meter said 24V.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    OK, I've finally made enough progress for a real update with a few pictures.

    Timing prevented me from getting the machine into my workshop until last night. My shop is on the second floor, and stairs are currently the only access. I removed the gantry to lighten the load as much as I could. A good friend and my wife gave me a hand and we were able to get the frame upstairs. You know you have a good friend when he helps you lift 250+lbs of welded steel up a flight of stairs. We strapped the frame end-up onto a hand truck and rolled it up step-by step then were able to tip the frame up and onto the base.



    The base is a combination of dimensional lumber (2x12, 2x6) that I planed/jointed flat and pieces of an LVL beam that I had laying around from when the garage/shop was built. The LVL material is dead straight and very strong, and made good legs. Leveling feet thread into some 80/20 base plates screwed into the bottom of the legs. The base seems pretty rigid for now, but I won't really know until the machine runs. I can add diagonal braces pretty easily on the inside if I need them.

    From previous posts, its easy to tell that I had made some progress on the electrical panel. I've done about as much as I can without mounting it in the box, so that will be the next step. The safety circuit seems to work, the controller/BOB are working and communicating to the computer/UCCNC, and the 75V power supply seems to be running. The wiring needs to be cleaned up, but I wanted to makes sure everything was working before I started adding zip-ties to everything.



    A few small details to point out...I added a 40mm fan to the top of the 75V power supply per Teknic's recommendation to maximize power output. This has to be mounted using rubber fan mounts because metal screws would hit internal electrical components. I built a simple adapter plate to mount the UC300ETH to the MB2 using a piece of 1/8" Lexan and some standoffs. Would be easy to cut on a CNC system, but mine is not yet built. It looks like CNCRoom will have a dedicated BOB for the UC300ETH (the UC300ETH-UB1) available soon. Looks like it will be a little more expensive than the route I took, but the integration looks really clean. It wasn't available when I ordered my parts.

    At this point, I do not regret either using DIN rail terminal blocks and components or having such a large panel. The DIN rail saved alot of drilling and allowed me to easily add connections that I had overlooked when I designed the circuits. The larger box has given me alot of space for wires, easy access to parts, and room to ventilate things. I used a YuCo enclosure, and this one came with a zinc-plated steel base plate. That has made it easy to connect grounding points. They did not mask the paint around the mounting holes for the plate, so the plate was not grounded to the box. I ground off the paint and added a corrosion inhibitor (Deoxit) to make the connection.

    I am adding a 120mm fan at the lower right (in the image above) of the panel for ventilation. It will have a dust filter on the inlet, and will blow across the bottom to provide cool air to the bottom of the VFD and 75V power supply. The outlet (also filtered) will be on the left side of the box, just above the VFD.

    The holes are drilled in the enclosure, so my next step is to finish wiring the panel. Once that is done, I will start playing with motors (initial power up, calibration). The spindle is due in later this week. I haven't powered up the VFD yet, so there may still be some learning on the safety circuit for that.

    Thanks for reading!

    -Robert

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-frame-place-jpg   - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-panel-09aug2017-jpg  


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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    From the brief testing I did, it appeared that the MB2 converted the PWM to a 24V signal. I'll check it again when I get a chance.
    I won't be able to check this, as I sold and shipped my MB2 last night. UB1 ordered today.

    Looks good so far. Are you going to use wire duct to hide the wires, or just tie em up?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    For those following along at home, here is an updated "schematic" with updates and changes that I made to the safety circuit.



    I have added a couple of pages to describe the wiring from the controller to the motors and sensors. I am using some pre-wired connectors/cables that I purchased from Automation Direct, but unfortunately the wire colors are not consistent on the 8-pin panel connector and the machine cable. Wish I had known that when I ordered the wires.

    I am also using a pre-made 4-conductor cable for motor power and I am daisy-chaining two of the motors on each cable. So I will be modifying this cable by cutting it carefully in the middle to avoid cutting one of the four conductors. This will allow me to have two separate safety ground lines (one from each motor) but it also means that one of these grounds will be a white wire instead of green. Not ideal, but I am planning to be creative with some green heat shrink tubing so that I am clear on what each line is. I wanted to avoid wiring the motor chassis grounds in series.

    That's a long-winded way of saying that I needed a way to decode the mess I'm about to create.

    -Robert

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-cnc-router-contoller-block-diag-20170809-001-a   - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-cnc-router-contoller-block-diag-20170809-002-a   - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-cnc-router-contoller-block-diag-20170809-003-a   - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-cnc-router-contoller-block-diag-20170809-004-a  

    - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2-cnc-router-contoller-block-diag-20170809-005-a  


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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I won't be able to check this, as I sold and shipped my MB2 last night. UB1 ordered today.

    Looks good so far. Are you going to use wire duct to hide the wires, or just tie em up?
    I'm just planning to tie em up. I'm breaking one of my own rules and using the little square adhesive zip-tie mounts to attach the wires to the back plate. I've always found that those things fall off eventually. I'll do my best to prep with isopropyl alcohol and keep my fingers crossed.

    I'm planning to try to tie the DC signals together and the AC power together and put in as much separation as I can between them. There is an area around the safety relay where it was impossible to avoid running them near each other.



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    Default Re: - FineLine Saturn 4x2 with ClearPath, UC300-ETH / MB2

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    I think the Hitachi VFD takes 3 - 27max volts for its pulse train inputs. I just looked for my DVD Manual to verify but couldn't find it. It works with mine and we have the same setup UCCNC - UC300ETH/ 5LPT - MB2 - WJ200.
    If you go the Pulse stream route, when you get to it, I can tell you the configuration settings that are working for me.
    1Jumper10,

    I'm ready to take you up on your offer. My spindle arrived yesterday, and I just need to check that the ground connection is right and get it wired up for testing. I haven't dug into this too deep yet, so I will need to learn little more about the VFD settings.

    Thanks,
    Robert



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