2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

[newcarver]

I may actually have all the components I need now to wire this up but in the meantime I decided to test my submersible water pump. It seemed fitting to do a little video so that's what I did and you may find it lightly entertaining, at my expense of course...

David,
You just invented a waterproof power supply and you were testing it right ?

[difalkner]

David,
You just invented a waterproof power supply and you were testing it right ?

Press release and Kickstarter campaign will begin soon...

[difalkner]

It's time to wire the panel but I wanted to make certain there would be sufficient airflow on the stepper drivers, in particular the Z and future A (rotary axis) since they aren't right in front of the fan. This is a simple little test but it validates what I thought it would be like so the next step is laying out the hole placement for the components and then drilling/tapping for a bunch of 6-32 screws.

[CNCMAN172]

Difalkner,
That should be plenty of air flow for your control cabinet. One thing which often happens is DUST gets pulled into the cabinet and everything get loaded with dust which over time impacts the air flow. You might want to add a filter for incoming air to help avoid that issue. One your driver placement, I think if you check those connectors think they pull off allowing you to work on the screws without staggering the drivers. Never touch those while power a good way to kill the driver or stepper motor. Looks like you will have a nice setup. On the water pump I recommend adding some antifreeze to distilled water and having that in a sealed bucket for cooling. Most water is hard and the calcium in the water will start to restrict the openings in the water cooled spindle over time. It is also nice to have the water coming into the bucket be above the water line so you can hear the water spilling into the bucket which gives you some positive feedback the water is actually moving. I actually purchased a little item that you can add to the water line that has a wheel that spins, which I need to add because when the spindle is cutting wood or metal it tends to get loud and sometimes it is hard to hear or see the water flowing. Keep up the good work.

Russ

[difalkner]

Difalkner,
That should be plenty of air flow for your control cabinet. One thing which often happens is DUST gets pulled into the cabinet and everything get loaded with dust which over time impacts the air flow. You might want to add a filter for incoming air to help avoid that issue. One your driver placement, I think if you check those connectors think they pull off allowing you to work on the screws without staggering the drivers. Never touch those while power a good way to kill the driver or stepper motor. Looks like you will have a nice setup. On the water pump I recommend adding some antifreeze to distilled water and having that in a sealed bucket for cooling. Most water is hard and the calcium in the water will start to restrict the openings in the water cooled spindle over time. It is also nice to have the water coming into the bucket be above the water line so you can hear the water spilling into the bucket which gives you some positive feedback the water is actually moving. I actually purchased a little item that you can add to the water line that has a wheel that spins, which I need to add because when the spindle is cutting wood or metal it tends to get loud and sometimes it is hard to hear or see the water flowing. Keep up the good work.

Russ

Hey Russ - thanks for the feedback. Yes, I have a filter for the incoming air and a grill for the outgoing air (didn't see a need for a filter but that can be easily added if I see it's necessary). And you are correct about the terminals coming off but the other reason I staggered the drives is that the airflow worked out better like this. My plan on the bucket is to get a 15 qt. to 30 qt. clear container from Lowe's and put the hoses through the top or upper sidewall and use some sort of antifreeze. I thought about the type for CPU cooling systems but that's rather pricey to get enough to mix properly. I also thought about RV antifreeze but it's easy to just get straight auto antifreeze and be done with it. I'll either get one of those flow indicators or make one but I do want something so I can tell at a glance that coolant is circulating.

David

[CNCMAN172]

difalkner,
That will work fine, you don't really need a radiator. I found about 2-3 gallons has enough thermal mass the water really only gets warm and it works just fine. I just used about 20% car anti-freeze to keep stuff from growing in the water and I change it every year anyway.

Russ

[difalkner]

Well, I already have the radiator and fan so I'll put them in. And given that it isn't hot in our shop I suspect this will stay pretty cool. Thanks, Russ!

David

[difalkner]

I had some meetings today so I didn't get very far on the CNC build but I did manage to print the component layout and get it taped to the back panel. Yes, I realize this may be a bit over the top and yes I am a bit anal but this is just the way I like to do things...

With this printed and taped to the panel all I have to do now is drill where indicated, so even though it took a little time to draw this to scale and print it now my job is much easier. Plus, this gave me the opportunity for optimum placement without interference between components.








One thing necessary was to make certain the switches didn't interfere with the PSU's or VFD since those come close to the door. But I drew these to scale, as well, and then opened and closed the door to verify nothing would hit on the inside.

Looking down from the top of the electrical enclosure with the door closed (PSU's and VFD are the dashed lines) -


And with the door open -


Thanks for reading and following - more later!
David

[CNCMAN172]

You sure your not my brother, I am anal the same way. Love your work.

Russ

[difalkner]

You sure you're not my brother, I am anal the same way. Love your work.

Russ

LOL! Thanks, Russ! Fun stuff, this...
David

[FineLineAuto]

Hey Russ - thanks for the feedback. Yes, I have a filter for the incoming air and a grill for the outgoing air (didn't see a need for a filter but that can be easily added if I see it's necessary). And you are correct about the terminals coming off but the other reason I staggered the drives is that the airflow worked out better like this. My plan on the bucket is to get a 15 qt. to 30 qt. clear container from Lowe's and put the hoses through the top or upper sidewall and use some sort of antifreeze. I thought about the type for CPU cooling systems but that's rather pricey to get enough to mix properly. I also thought about RV antifreeze but it's easy to just get straight auto antifreeze and be done with it. I'll either get one of those flow indicators or make one but I do want something so I can tell at a glance that coolant is circulating.

David

David,

You should only need a filter on the intake side.

Regarding the cooling, if you use anti-freeze mix water with 5-10% anti-freeze by volume. If you want a different color, you can always add some food coloring to the water mixture.

[difalkner]

David,

You should only need a filter on the intake side.

Regarding the cooling, if you use anti-freeze mix water with 5-10% anti-freeze by volume. If you want a different color, you can always add some food coloring to the water mixture.

I wondered if I could use food coloring. We'll see, I might go with red. But food coloring is messy if it gets on anything though I've seen coolant in different colors for CPU's so I might try some of that.

[CNCMAN172]

You can get standard car antifreeze that is RED or GREEN maybe even YELLOW. This was not a big deal to me, the only thing critical is to ensure that the water is moving, then you have no fear the spindle will overheat and die. I check the flow periodically by listening or watching the water drop in the bucket. I also touch the bucket to ensure the water is not getting hot. In my case after cutting aluminum for 4-5 hours with my 4KW spindle the water is just warm.

Russ

[difalkner]

You can get standard car antifreeze that is RED or GREEN maybe even YELLOW. This was not a big deal to me, the only thing critical is to ensure that the water is moving, then you have no fear the spindle will overheat and die. I check the flow periodically by listening or watching the water drop in the bucket. I also touch the bucket to ensure the water is not getting hot. In my case after cutting aluminum for 4-5 hours with my 4KW spindle the water is just warm.

Russ

I didn't know they make red, most of what I've seen is sort of a greenish-yellow. I'll go to Pepboys and ask for red antifreeze - they'll get a kick out of that!

How big is your bucket, Russ? I bought a 31 quart container (7.75 gallons) and figured I would fill it about half way and see how it does. The clear plastic container I will be using is one of those like you slide under your bed for storage. I reasoned that there is a larger surface area to dissipate heat this way over something like a 5 gallon pail - might be the same amount of liquid but probably splitting hairs over which might be more efficient.

- - - Updated - - -

In preparation for drilling and tapping all the holes in the back panel I realized I had yet to drill the holes in the brackets for the 5V power supply. Simple task, right? Just stick it in the vise and drill 5/32" holes in the aluminum - a veritable walk in the park. Unless you don't clamp the vise very tight...

Oops! Drill bit grabbed and slung this across the room -


But I straightened it out, polished the new character marks out, and shot some lacquer on both pieces -


Lots of holes drilled and tapped, ready for components -


Components mounted -


More to come!
Thanks for following,
David

[CNCMAN172]

David,

I used a 5 gallon pail with a plastic lid. I drilled holes in the top of the lid for the liquid lines, the reason for the lid is it keeps out dirt and helps reduce evaporation. The RED antifreeze can't recall the brand but often the stuff for campers and houses waiting to be sold where the heat is not on is always RED, not sure why but think that stuff is even available at Home Depot, my son put it in his toilets when his condo was for sale so they could keep the heat very low.

You might want to think about making a common grounding bar in your panel to keep all the grounds connected to one common strip. This essentially becomes the star ground and will help avoid noise issues.

I have been rebuilding my control cabinet for my small CNC machine, which often had a good deal of interference, so I have been doing everything possible to limit noise, for example using 12/24 V logic for home sensors limits switches, estop, etc. Making sure you high voltage stuff away from low voltage stuff, like your doing all helps make for a stable system. You have that beautiful Orange base plate, I only had some plywood but you will be glad you are taking all this effort.



I have even gone to the length to design a custom board to interface my optical homing sensors which I run at 12V to the BOB which all runs at 5V, they are all optically isolated so this also helps noise. Believe me if you have noise on a machine you will tear out all your hair trying to figure out what is wrong and why the machine suddenly stops, etc. Here is a picture of the tiny board I designed in the free version of Eagle PCB to address the homing sensors. I am using the ESS smoothstepper and the C25 breakout board for the ESS. I also had to get the C41 board for spindle control. I am attempting to use MACH4 during the rebuild. I have a 4KW water cooled Chinese spindle that uses the Huanyang VFD which is not fully modbus compliant. Someone wrote a plugin for Mach3 but nothing for Mach4, so I had to go the relay and DAC method for control for Mach4. I am using braided shielded cables on everything, again being very ANAL to ensure I don't deal with noise. LOL



Russ

[difalkner]

David,

I used a 5 gallon pail with a plastic lid. I drilled holes in the top of the lid for the liquid lines, the reason for the lid is it keeps out dirt and helps reduce evaporation. The RED antifreeze can't recall the brand but often the stuff for campers and houses waiting to be sold where the heat is not on is always RED, not sure why but think that stuff is even available at Home Depot, my son put it in his toilets when his condo was for sale so they could keep the heat very low.

You might want to think about making a common grounding bar in your panel to keep all the grounds connected to one common strip. This essentially becomes the star ground and will help avoid noise issues.

I have been rebuilding my control cabinet for my small CNC machine, which often had a good deal of interference, so I have been doing everything possible to limit noise, for example using 12/24 V logic for home sensors limits switches, estop, etc. Making sure you high voltage stuff away from low voltage stuff, like your doing all helps make for a stable system. You have that beautiful Orange base plate, I only had some plywood but you will be glad you are taking all this effort.



I have even gone to the length to design a custom board to interface my optical homing sensors which I run at 12V to the BOB which all runs at 5V, they are all optically isolated so this also helps noise. Believe me if you have noise on a machine you will tear out all your hair trying to figure out what is wrong and why the machine suddenly stops, etc. Here is a picture of the tiny board I designed in the free version of Eagle PCB to address the homing sensors. I am using the ESS smoothstepper and the C25 breakout board for the ESS. I also had to get the C41 board for spindle control. I am attempting to use MACH4 during the rebuild. I have a 4KW water cooled Chinese spindle that uses the Huanyang VFD which is not fully modbus compliant. Someone wrote a plugin for Mach3 but nothing for Mach4, so I had to go the relay and DAC method for control for Mach4. I am using braided shielded cables on everything, again being very ANAL to ensure I don't deal with noise. LOL



Russ

Good tips, Russ - thanks! I agree on the grounding but this enclosure has that covered -


Grounding post -


And I have already checked every screw and mounted component to make certain they are grounded and in full contact with the back panel.

I'm glad to see you're using the C25; I wouldn't mind seeing a diagram on how you connected everything to that board. I'm using the C25S which is the newer board with push terminals but the connections are the same and I have yet to drill down to see how I need to wire this board. And I like your board design - have you built it yet? I need to finalize how my proximity sensors will connect and fairly certain I still have some research to do.

The VFD I am using is the Hitachi WJ200 and I don't know if I'll be able to control speed in Mach4 - haven't gotten that far... lots yet to do!

[CNCMAN172]

David,
The C25 is pretty easy to wire up, so I am assuming your using the ESS as well. In your case your are lucky you are using a high quality VFD that does support Modbus son if you decide to go with Mach4 you will have not issue. Several people have the spindle control using modbus on Mach3 and Mach4.

Grounding Item: While you have the front door and the back panel with ground terminal, you really need to get a ground bar or strip that is dedicated to all the ground wires that come in the cabinet. They should all be connected to that single strip, not to various places on the back of the cabinet, this could lead to ground loops. A small 4-5" copper bar with multiple terminals often found at HomeDepot in the electrical section near breakers for service centers if where you can find that kind of stuff. Similar to what you see in an electrical panel at your house, you typically want all those grounds to connect on that strip.



Your doing a great job on your box, I can upload the typical schematic for the C25, pretty easy.

Russ

[difalkner]

David,
The C25 is pretty easy to wire up, so I am assuming you're using the ESS as well. In your case you are lucky you are using a high quality VFD that does support Modbus so if you decide to go with Mach4 you will have not issue. Several people have the spindle control using modbus on Mach3 and Mach4.

Grounding Item: While you have the front door and the back panel with ground terminal, you really need to get a ground bar or strip that is dedicated to all the ground wires that come in the cabinet. They should all be connected to that single strip, not to various places on the back of the cabinet, this could lead to ground loops. A small 4-5" copper bar with multiple terminals often found at HomeDepot in the electrical section near breakers for service centers if where you can find that kind of stuff. Similar to what you see in an electrical panel at your house, you typically want all those grounds to connect on that strip.



You're doing a great job on your box, I can upload the typical schematic for the C25, pretty easy.

Russ

Yes, I am using the ESS and I'd like to see your schematic. I'll PM my email address to you if that's easier.

Grounding - you're talking about all the shielded cables and ground for incoming power tying into a single grounding strip, right? I have a couple of these grounding lugs that I intended to use on that ground bolt and each one will hold about four or five 14 gauge wires so I figured between the two lugs I'll get all of my grounds and shielded connections in one spot (I one of those grounding strips like you indicated but wasn't going to use it unless everything won't fit in the two lugs). I definitely want to avoid ground loop issues!

[CNCMAN172]

David,
Got your PM, and will contact you shortly. Been a very busy Friday afternoon. LOL

The attached wiring diagram is pretty typical.


Russ

[mactec54]

Yes, I am using the ESS and I'd like to see your schematic. I'll PM my email address to you if that's easier.

Grounding - you're talking about all the shielded cables and ground for incoming power tying into a single grounding strip, right? I have a couple of these grounding lugs that I intended to use on that ground bolt and each one will hold about four or five 14 gauge wires so I figured between the two lugs I'll get all of my grounds and shielded connections in one spot (I one of those grounding strips like you indicated but wasn't going to use it unless everything won't fit in the two lugs). I definitely want to avoid ground loop issues!

That would be impossible to do that, ( You can not add a wire to a Shield ) so you can not take your Shields to the Star Ground Point, this is for your Ground wires P/E only, Shields are Terminated / Grounded at the Source, here are some Shield Clamps, which don't have to be just like this, but need to be similar to get correct Shield Grounding

Mostly the Shields are Terminated directly to the Ground Plane, ( Back Plane )