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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Agree with Ger21, you should always use shielded wire, if you are using a VFD and Spindle they generate a huge amount of EMI and your will have nothing but trouble with false e-stops and everything else if you fail to use shielded cables and proper grounding.

    Russ



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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    My opinion is that everything should be in the cabinet, and the cabinet should be well sealed with well filtered intake air coming in. If you mount the VFD outside of the cabinet, it will fill with dust eventually.
    You'll never see a VFD mounted outside of the cabinet on an industrial router.

    I would always use shielded cable for the spindle, limit and home switches.
    So noted, thanks Gerry!

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Agree with Ger21, you should always use shielded wire, if you are using a VFD and Spindle they generate a huge amount of EMI and your will have nothing but trouble with false e-stops and everything else if you fail to use shielded cables and proper grounding.

    Russ
    Don't want any false e-stops or false signals of any kind. Thanks, Russ!

    - - - Updated - - -

    The spindle mount just arrived. I'm now 5 minutes closer to finishing - LOL! That's all it took to mount this, so while I can't run without it I figure I've only gained 5 minutes.

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-020-spindle-mounted-jpg

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-021-spindle-mounted-jpg

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Updating photos
    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Nice looking Spindle mount

    Get yourself some shielded cable similar to this stuff on ebay for your spindle. You want braided shield not just the foil shield. This is 25' which should be plenty for the spindle.

    Alpha Wire 5544 Ultra Guard 14AWG 4 Conductor Shielded Cable Robot Comp 25' Roll | eBay



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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Nice looking Spindle mount

    Get yourself some shielded cable similar to this stuff on ebay for your spindle. You want braided shield not just the foil shield. This is 25' which should be plenty for the spindle.

    Alpha Wire 5544 Ultra Guard 14AWG 4 Conductor Shielded Cable Robot Comp 25' Roll | eBay
    Awesome, thanks!! I'll order that when we get back from church tonight.

    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Awesome, thanks!! I'll order that when we get back from church tonight.

    Before you buy this cable you need to see if it will fit your Spindle Plug Wire restraint will only open a small amount, if it is a 2.2Kw spindle 14 AWG is to large 16 AWG is more than enough but check the od of the Cable it has to fit in the Plug

    Mactec54


  6. #26

    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    You also want to check the spindle itself to make sure the pin labeled ground is connected to the spindle casing. On some of the Chinese spindles it is just floating and I've seen it cause false e-stops from the noise. Should be a 30 second check to unscrew the top and verify.


    Nate
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Before you buy this cable you need to see if it will fit your Spindle Plug Wire restraint will only open a small amount, if it is a 2.2Kw spindle 14 AWG is too large 16 AWG is more than enough but check the od of the Cable it has to fit in the Plug
    I believe it will fit but it will definitely be tight. If not I'll convince it as gently as possible. It's a 3kW spindle so 14 AWG ought to be just about right. I've looked at getting a better connector so if this simply won't work and be safe then I'll upgrade the connector. Thanks for thinking of that!

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLineAuto View Post
    You also want to check the spindle itself to make sure the pin labeled ground is connected to the spindle casing. On some of the Chinese spindles it is just floating and I've seen it cause false e-stops from the noise. Should be a 30 second check to unscrew the top and verify.

    Nate
    Fine Line Automation
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    Thanks, Nate. I did that right after I got the spindle and it wasn't connected; it is now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The screw caps also came in with the spindle mount and I had time tonight after church to put those on - 72 of them! That took a lot longer than mounting the spindle, for sure. But it will keep dust out of the screw holes and help lengthen the life of the bearings. After I put them in I dressed each one down to make sure nothing was sticking up proud of the surface.

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-022-screw-caps-jpg

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-023-screw-caps-jpg

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-024-screw-caps-jpg

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Updating photos
    David
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  8. #28

    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Just a note to those following this thread: going forward those caps will be installed before the machine is shipped.


    Nate
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  9. #29
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    I believe it will fit but it will definitely be tight. If not I'll convince it as gently as possible. It's a 3kW spindle so 14 AWG ought to be just about right. I've looked at getting a better connector so if this simply won't work and be safe then I'll upgrade the connector.
    What you where looking at does not have a Ground wire so is of no use to you

    16 AWG is more than enough this IGUS cable is what you should be looking at, both are similar, just the outside diameter is different, both rated at 20 Amps, your spindle is only 12.5 Amps

    CF31-13-04 Outside Diameter 10.5 or .410"


    14 AWG is normal to large in Diameter to fit the Plug

    CF35-15-04 Outside Diameter 9.5 or .370"

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    What you where looking at does not have a Ground wire so is of no use to you

    16 AWG is more than enough this IGUS cable is what you should be looking at, both are similar, just the outside diameter is different, both rated at 20 Amps, your spindle is only 12.5 Amps

    CF31-13-04 Outside Diameter 10.5 or .410"


    14 AWG is normal to large in Diameter to fit the Plug

    CF35-15-04 Outside Diameter 9.5 or .370"
    In retrospect you are probably correct but the other cable is on the way and I'll do my best to make it work as long as I don't compromise the integrity of the circuit or ground. If I'm not comfortable with it then I'll order the IGUS cable.

    Thank you for your input!!

    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    MacTec54 is correct the connector size on the spindles does vary depending on the the KW size. My spindle is the 4KW and the 14AWG fit fine. If you find the wire is too big carefully remove some of the wire copper wires from the end that needs to go in the connector. You clip them which will shrink the diameter of each wire connection. You only want to remove just enough to allow you to get the wire in each connector. Be careful when you solder the connections you want a good solder job but not so hot that it melts back the insulation. In fact it is often a good idea to slide on some heat shrink tubing prior to soldering each wire so you have some to slide over the connection when you finish soldering. This is sometimes tricky since the length of the wires going into the connector are usually pretty short. Good Luck.

    Russ



  12. #32

    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    MacTec54 is correct the connector size on the spindles does vary depending on the the KW size. My spindle is the 4KW and the 14AWG fit fine. If you find the wire is too big carefully remove some of the wire copper wires from the end that needs to go in the connector. You clip them which will shrink the diameter of each wire connection. You only want to remove just enough to allow you to get the wire in each connector. Be careful when you solder the connections you want a good solder job but not so hot that it melts back the insulation. In fact it is often a good idea to slide on some heat shrink tubing prior to soldering each wire so you have some to slide over the connection when you finish soldering. This is sometimes tricky since the length of the wires going into the connector are usually pretty short. Good Luck.

    Russ
    Good writeup. I recommend this as well.


    Nate
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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Well, bummer... I am all set to wire the enclosure this weekend and my box arrived on time from Amazon, as usual. However, for the first time in a long time they sent the wrong item. I ordered a 16x16x8 enclosure and they sent a 20x24x8 box. That would be ok if it would fit but it is way too large and I'm gonna have to send it back. I'd have to modify the stand or mount it somewhere off the machine for this to work for me and I don't wish to do either of those.

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-025-wrong-enclosure-jpg

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-026-wrong-enclosure-jpg

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Updating photos
    David
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  14. #34

    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Wow, that is a huge box. Where are you thinking about mounting it and why won't it work out?


    Nate
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLineAuto View Post
    Wow, that is a huge box. Where are you thinking about mounting it and why won't it work out?


    Nate
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    My plan is to mount it between the top rail and bottom stretcher of the stand. I have 18" between the two so I can't even turn this box sideways and have the door hinge at the top or bottom. I wouldn't want it that way anyway but it's just plain ol' too large.

    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Large boxes are actually nice, most of us add stuff over time and it is nice to be able to separate the high voltage stuff from the low voltage stuff as it help address noise issues. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit.

    Russ



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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Large boxes are actually nice, most of us add stuff over time and it is nice to be able to separate the high voltage stuff from the low voltage stuff as it help address noise issues. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit.

    Russ
    Yep, when I saw the size I started trying to figure out how I could incorporate it into the stand for that very reason - if some space is good then more space is better, right?!! But the only way I can use it is to lay it down, put it on drawer extensions, and roll it out from under the CNC when/if I need access to it. Amazon is paying for Sunday delivery and the new one is on schedule to be here tomorrow. When it comes I'll find out if they have they just made a mistake in filling the order or if they have the wrong description in the listing.

    If it's wrong this time then I'll probably mount it externally even though that increases my overall footprint. I was really trying to avoid increasing the footprint in the already crowded shop but I'll make it work either way.

    I would mount it on the left side of the end but I didn't want to move the little table for the photo, though I'll move it soon anyway -
    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-027-enclosure-external-mount-jpg

    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-028-enclosure-external-mount-jpg

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Updating photos
    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Well, the 16x16x8 enclosure came in today from Amazon to replace the 24x20x8 enclosure they sent on Friday. I typically plan to the last little detail but on the enclosure choice I never laid out all the components, just assumed 16x16x8 would be sufficient. Man, was I wrong!! So I'm keeping the wrong one they sent on Friday and shipping back the one that came in today.

    I loosely laid out the components on the back plate and there's no way this would have ever fit on the smaller one -
    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-029-enclosure-layout-jpg

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Updating photos
    David
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    Default Re: 2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'

    Like I said larger boxes are typically nicer, they give you more room to route the cables and place all the components and keep them separated. You will be glad to went with the bigger box.

    Russ



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    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Well, the 16x16x8 enclosure came in today from Amazon to replace the 24x20x8 enclosure they sent on Friday. I typically plan to the last little detail but on the enclosure choice I never laid out all the components, just assumed 16x16x8 would be sufficient. Man, was I wrong!! So I'm keeping the wrong one they sent on Friday and shipping back the one that came in today.

    I loosely laid out the components on the back plate and there's no way this would have ever fit on the smaller one -
    2nd Build (first) - Saturn CNC 2'x4'-029-enclosure-layout-jpg

    Small suggestion.. turn the power supplies up on their sides and use those attachment holes

    I also bought a second smaller enclosure for my vfd. As much noise as those thanks make the last thing I wanted is having it so close to my other electronics

    Last edited by difalkner; 11-10-2017 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Updating photos


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