Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions


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    Default Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions

    Hey Guys,

    I bought one of the FLA-200 kits from Nate and recently started assembling it. I have a question regarding aligning the X and Y axes... namely - what's a good way to do it? as far as being mounted to the 8020 extrusion, the X axis plates are within .001" over the entire length but from one plate to the other they seem to be out by a mile so the bearing carriages are tight on one end and not even touching on the other . Also, once the X is fully aligned, how do I make sure Y is perfectly perpendicular to X... and how the heck do I know X and Y are perfectly straight to the machine?! Sometimes certain things escape me and this seems to be one of those time... 12 axis mill/turn center? no problem... assembling a simple 8020 machine and i'm all thumbs it seems...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the thrill View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I bought one of the FLA-200 kits from Nate and recently started assembling it. I have a question regarding aligning the X and Y axes... namely - what's a good way to do it? as far as being mounted to the 8020 extrusion, the X axis plates are within .001" over the entire length but from one plate to the other they seem to be out by a mile so the bearing carriages are tight on one end and not even touching on the other . Also, once the X is fully aligned, how do I make sure Y is perfectly perpendicular to X... and how the heck do I know X and Y are perfectly straight to the machine?! Sometimes certain things escape me and this seems to be one of those time... 12 axis mill/turn center? no problem... assembling a simple 8020 machine and i'm all thumbs it seems...
    I've asked that question about four times now, and the only answer I've received has been from Ahren Johnson, who said I should clamp squares to the 8020 and do my best, and that after it's assembled I'll need to spend some time loosening and tightening until everything runs smoothly. I've done that with my Z axis plate and it's now running smoothly. Part of the trick is to not mount the antibacklash nut until you've got the axis sliding smoothly. Honestly, though, I'm hoping to hear some more advice here in your thread.



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    well i've figured out that by some odd chance one of the legs on my machine is out of square so i'm going to have to go back and tweak some stuff around until i get it to line up properly. i think that is part of my problem. One thing i've found, though, is that once it's tightened, there isn't much play in the framework of the machine so i'd assume the X wouldn't be off by too much. The one thing I did do, though, is I measured one bearing block to the proper spacing off of the E drawing, squared it up, tightened it down real good and then held both bearings to the slide plate with a c clamp which, in theory, should make Y square to X... or at least I am hoping... I'm still having a binding issue because of that one out of square leg so I have some fiddling to do later when i get home....



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    One thing Nate told me is that the mounting of the legs relative to the support frame is critical - he suggested trying to get it within 1/64 if possible. Although the drawing shows the legs attached to the top X beam as an assembly, he suggested building the support frame, getting it square, and then attaching the legs to it - getting them square to the support and equal lengths support to end. Then mount the top (X) beams on the legs, get them square, ... I think you need the frame to be very square before you try to get the rails parallel to each other.

    At least that's how I interpreted what he told me.

    My FLA300 (4 x 4) kit second shipment is being delivered today, so I get to try all of this out this week.

    Good luck - post pictures and let us know how you succeed.

    I do think that Nate ought to spend some time putting together assembly instructions. It may be obvious to him how it should be assembled, but it's not so obvious to me.



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    yea i think the one mistake i made was not squaring up the legs with the table frame before i put the X rails on. I'm square on 3 of the 4 corners but i'm out on one. i'm gonna have to loosen and adjust via large striking device...

    you can't really beat the guy up for being a little slow as far as instructions go... i, like him, operate a night/weekend business and when you work full time it gets overwhelming. i'm sure he didn't think for a second he'd sell as many kits per week as he has been... I make electric guitars and pickups as a side gig and I know when I get more than one or 2 pickup orders a week it gets tough... especially when i also get refinish, refret and repair work in as well... i have a whole wall dedicated to other peoples stuff I have to get to... I think Nate has been doing a fine job considering his workload...



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    Default Instructions

    Hi Guys,

    I have this site bookmarked:
    http://www.overclock.net/case-mod-wo...ustom-cnc.html

    Hopefully it give you a little more info......

    Howard



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan5 View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I have this site bookmarked:
    http://www.overclock.net/case-mod-wo...ustom-cnc.html

    Hopefully it give you a little more info......

    Howard
    Thanks! I have to say, I could not for the life of me get the .625 button heads to reach through the backlash nuts into the slots to grab the econo t-slot nuts and tighten down. I finally went and got some .75 button heads from a local fastenal. (https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4396.JPG)



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    Default Fla-3000 :)

    I bought one of the Fla 200's also...took Nate a while but he was swamped..
    I have since widened the table to be 65" wide(need one more piece of 3030 to finish it) and then lengthened it to 8 feet! Just drilled the rails 50 some holes on each 8 foot length of rails..
    Also have a one of a kind Wolfgang engineering Z axis (7" travel)..
    this is keeping me busy just doing the table....during the winter i plan on doing the control box...using hall effect switches for the limits and rare earth magnets...
    then solid state relays for the spindle and vacuum system so I can stagger the turn on times and current loads...
    have fun with it i sure am!!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions-cimg0223-jpg   Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions-cimg0224-jpg   Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions-cimg0225-jpg   Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions-cimg0226-jpg  

    Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions-cimg0227-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by restless1 View Post
    I bought one of the Fla 200's also...took Nate a while but he was swamped..
    I have since widened the table to be 65" wide(need one more piece of 3030 to finish it) and then lengthened it to 8 feet! Just drilled the rails 50 some holes on each 8 foot length of rails..
    Also have a one of a kind Wolfgang engineering Z axis (7" travel)..
    this is keeping me busy just doing the table....during the winter i plan on doing the control box...using hall effect switches for the limits and rare earth magnets...
    then solid state relays for the spindle and vacuum system so I can stagger the turn on times and current loads...
    have fun with it i sure am!!
    Very cool! Now please do tell, how do you set about making sure everything's square when you set up one of these bolt together wonder kits?



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    Is there more to this build log somewhere? Nate still in business? I have sent several inquiries to his website and got nothing back. Is he just very busy or ??

    Thanks, JD



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    Quote Originally Posted by JD68 View Post
    Is there more to this build log somewhere? Nate still in business? I have sent several inquiries to his website and got nothing back. Is he just very busy or ??

    Thanks, JD
    I think Nate is much busier than he anticipated when he started this business. He typically responds to email on the weekends. If he appears to be ignoring you, it's probably because he's hoping to get a couple more out the door before he says yes to another job. But I can't really speak for him, that's just speculation.



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    These questions have been asked elsewhere, but no response.

    I'm guessing you guys probably have some runtime on your FLA200's by now. I'm on the fence between the FLA100 and FLA200.

    I've been thinking of scaling up the FLA100 to 2.5ft x 4ft.

    Will widening by 6" cause racking problems?

    Bed sag?

    Thanks,
    Scott



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    Quote Originally Posted by szastoupil View Post
    These questions have been asked elsewhere, but no response.

    I'm guessing you guys probably have some runtime on your FLA200's by now. I'm on the fence between the FLA100 and FLA200.

    I've been thinking of scaling up the FLA100 to 2.5ft x 4ft.

    Will widening by 6" cause racking problems?

    Bed sag?

    Thanks,
    Scott
    I doubt that six inches will make a lot of difference if it doesn't rack the way it is now. The bed won't sag, but it may deflect downward a little bit more under plunging pressures near center of the table. Everything is a trade-off. It can usually be corrected with some extra engineering.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    The FLA 100 is a 2x3 table. When one side goes to 4', the design changes and used rack and pinion. I'd suggest going with the FLA500 kit as it's a 3x4 design.



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    Thanks CarveOne.

    I wonder what the advantages of the 100 vs. 200 would be besides bed size. My goal is to cut Corian(plastic) for "accurate" molds having a 2.5x4ft bed . I like the 100 is a little bit more portable IF I have to move it. I already have a Gecko 540, so 4 motors isn't a problem going the 200 route. I do like the idea of a lighter gantry for rapid performance. Some thoughts in making the gantry are to add some corner brackets and possibly two bearing assemblies per Y-rail, 4 total. These last two sentences may contradict each other slightly and maybe my thought process is off track.

    In a nutshell, what would likely be giving up with an upscaled FLA100?

    Scott



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    Quote Originally Posted by szastoupil View Post
    Thanks CarveOne.

    I wonder what the advantages of the 100 vs. 200 would be besides bed size. My goal is to cut Corian(plastic) for "accurate" molds having a 2.5x4ft bed . I like the 100 is a little bit more portable IF I have to move it. I already have a Gecko 540, so 4 motors isn't a problem going the 200 route. I do like the idea of a lighter gantry for rapid performance. Some thoughts in making the gantry are to add some corner brackets and possibly two bearing assemblies per Y-rail, 4 total. These last two sentences may contradict each other slightly and maybe my thought process is off track.

    In a nutshell, what would likely be giving up with an upscaled FLA100?

    Scott
    Yes, add the corner brackets. The joint at the gantry beam to upright supports are where you will see considerable flexing if the joint is weak. The gantry beam itself will also bend when racking does occur. Even a welded steel butt joint can flex too much without triangulation plates.

    Two bearing assemblies per per rail is good, and is typically done. It gives better support to the Y/Z assembly connections. Makes for a more rigid Z assembly.

    There are times when adding weight is beneficial, and times when adding weight is not beneficial, or even detrimental. Sometimes it's a tough call, and you need to figure out what to do as a second option when it goes wrong.

    As RossMosh indicates, going to 48" means considering changing to rack & pinion, or consider using multi-start ACME screws to get away from potential lead screw whipping issues. They will also give you faster jog speeds. Both methods can be roughly the same cost depending on how you go about doing it.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    I ordered all Rack and Pinion stuff from FLA but built my own bed and frame that has a cutting area of 30"x54". (external dimensions something like 48"x72")

    I too ran into the problem of squaring up everything.

    Measuring tapes and machinist squares were only getting me so far, so I ended up buying a bunch of 1-2-3 blocks from ebay. I think I bought 20 or so.

    These are very precision grounded, within 0.001" I think.

    I stacked them all up and used these to measure and create right angles everywhere.

    My table is very square now. Clamping extrusions together with 1-2-3 blocks in between proved to be a very effective measuring technique for me.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryantes View Post
    Clamping extrusions together with 1-2-3 blocks in between proved to be a very effective measuring technique for me.
    It looks like about $9-$14 a pair for these.

    Did you use machinist squares to square up the rails and then the blocks to make everything parallel? Or?

    Scott



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    I'm not sure if it is me or what but, using a Machinist square on extrusion was so clumsy for me.

    I ended up using the edge of a 1-2-3 block as a square.

    Clamped these suckers everywhere. The hardest part was getting the cutting bed level, perfectly parallel with the steel rails. (although I'm not sure how the FLA-200 kit looks)

    I think I did pay about 9 bucks a pair for them.

    I got enough to span across the Y axis to make sure my X axis extrusions were parallel.

    I have rack and pinion, and therefore have 2 motors for the x axis, so I used these blocks to get mounting positions for home switches to ensure there's no racking going on.

    Really, I just used them everywhere I could, as they were my most reliable form of measurement, easy to work with.



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    Default Re: Fine Line Automation FLA-200 build questions

    I'm going to resurrect my own thread. Anyone know what the FLA-200 Mach3 motor movement profiles look like for the steppers? Had a hard drive crash and am trying to get it up and going again.

    Edit: Never mind! Guy named Ghost helped me with that years ago. Thanks Ghost!
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mach-s...tml#post836978

    Last edited by Matt Clara; 08-25-2017 at 09:13 PM.


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