Swapping M3 and M4 in Fanuc 10T???

[Andy Fritz]

For some reason the spindle and live tools turn in the wrong direction.
The very poor user manual for the Wasino LJ-103M lathe says the direction can be changed in SETTINGS, but I have checked both the settings and parameters and find nothing. Someone suggested it might be the correct direction, but then I would not be able to get the cutting edge of the holders on the center line and have to use left hand end mills and drills! Of course I could program an M4 instead of M3, but if a parameter or setting is available it is much better.
Could the fact that I run the machine on 50 hz instead of 60 hz have a bearing?
There is a toggle switch on the out side of the machine to change between 50 to 60 hz and I have set it to 50, but maybe it doesnt work?

Cheers,

Andy

[Al_The_Man]

Is the spindle motor a AC induction motor? If so reversing 2 phases on the reversing contactor will reverse the M3 M4.
If all AC motors are reversed then reverse two input phases to the machine.
Al.

[Andy Fritz]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man Is the spindle motor a AC induction motor? If so reversing 2 phases on the reversing contactor will reverse the M3 M4. If all AC motors are reversed then reverse two input phases to the machine. Al.

Hi Al,

Not sure about the induction part, but AC it is. All axis motor are turning in the correct direction. If I rotate the incoming power nothing changes apart from the hydraulic pump run back wards. Rotating the legs into the spindle drive is also ,not surprisingly, useless. The only way is to swap the motor power cables, but I get an alarm as the pulse coder is not reversed. As I have not changed the polarity of the pumps, I have checked incoming phase with a rotation meter and I assume a 30 year old machine would have been set up correct I really wonder why this is happening. The funny thing is another lathe is also turning backwards so I can only assume it is something with the power like the 50 hz thing. Well if no bright ideas comes to mind I guess I will have to swap the encoder phase and move on!
I take your reply as "there is no hidden Fanuc setting for swapping M3 to M4?

Cheers,

Andy

[guhl]

What type of interface do you have? BMI, FS3 or FS6? Other words, do you have PMC (yellow boxes in magnet cabinet)? What type of control of spindle (12-bit or analogue)?
In case of FS3 or FS6:
par.5600#0 - polarity of spindle speed analogue output voltage when M03 is commanded
0: +
1: -
par. 5600#1 polarity of spindle speed analogue output voltage when M04 is commanded
0: +
1: -

In case of BMI you should look into your ladder

[sinha_nsit]

You can use the feature "subprogram call by an M-code", to reverse the meaning of M3/M4.

[Andy Fritz]

Originally Posted by guhl What type of interface do you have? BMI, FS3 or FS6? Other words, do you have PMC (yellow boxes in magnet cabinet)? What type of control of spindle (12-bit or analogue)? In case of FS3 or FS6: par.5600#0 - polarity of spindle speed analogue output voltage when M03 is commanded 0: + 1: - par. 5600#1 polarity of spindle speed analogue output voltage when M04 is commanded 0: + 1: - In case of BMI you should look into your ladder

Hi Guhl,

Thanks for your reply. I really dont know much about the interface. Do you mean the spindle drive? If so it is a Fanuc p/n A06B-6044-H742. The main spindle drive PCB is A20B-1000-069. The orientation/Position PCB is A20B-0008-0240 and there is another at the top called A20B-1000-065.

I have already looked at the parameters you suggested. They are both set to 0 in the control and on the original parameter sheet. I tried to change the one for M3 to "1". It did not make a difference as I expected as the original setting of "0" on both is a contradiction in terms, so logiacally these parameter should not be applicable to my spindle drive. There is nothing digital about it, so would guess it's not!

Andy

[Andy Fritz]

Originally Posted by sinha_nsit You can use the feature "subprogram call by an M-code", to reverse the meaning of M3/M4.

That is an idea, but if anything needs to be changed in the program code I think it may even be easier to edit the post from the CAM software to outout an M4 for every M3! That is what I will do if I cant find the source of the problem or find the correct wires for the encoder to swap.

Andy

[sinha_nsit]

No change in any program is needed. M3 would call a subprogram which will have M4 inside it. And M4 would call a subprogram with M3 inside it. This would reverse the spindle directions. Any M-code inside a sumprogram called by an M-code, is treated as an ordinary M-code (i.e., it would not call a subprogram).

[guhl]

On my 10T controller specifies the speed by 0...10V and direction is specified by PMC. It on or off relay, wich NO contacts determine direction. If there is same situation on your machine (see the circuit diagram) you may swap wire from NO contact to NC contact. It will affect reversing the direction.
And if your controller gives out bipolar signal -10...+10 the only just you should do, it's swap over wires in connector on spindle

[CNCRim]

Originally Posted by Andy Fritz For some reason the spindle and live tools turn in the wrong direction. The very poor user manual for the Wasino LJ-103M lathe says the direction can be changed in SETTINGS, but I have checked both the settings and parameters and find nothing. Someone suggested it might be the correct direction, but then I would not be able to get the cutting edge of the holders on the center line and have to use left hand end mills and drills! Of course I could program an M4 instead of M3, but if a parameter or setting is available it is much better. Could the fact that I run the machine on 50 hz instead of 60 hz have a bearing? There is a toggle switch on the out side of the machine to change between 50 to 60 hz and I have set it to 50, but maybe it doesnt work? Cheers, Andy

Why bother scambling around just to fix the direction of the tool, just get used to the machine, my 2cents. I used to run the Hitachi..... that have the same configuration.

[Andy Fritz]

Originally Posted by guhl On my 10T controller specifies the speed by 0...10V and direction is specified by PMC. It on or off relay, wich NO contacts determine direction. If there is same situation on your machine (see the circuit diagram) you may swap wire from NO contact to NC contact. It will affect reversing the direction. And if your controller gives out bipolar signal -10...+10 the only just you should do, it's swap over wires in connector on spindle

Hi Guhl,

If it is a bi-polar drive and I change positions for -10 and +10, would I also have to invert the phase of the pulse coder?

If it uses relays and I change NO to NC, would I also have to phase invert the pulse coder?

Cheers,

Andy

[Andy Fritz]

Originally Posted by sinha_nsit No change in any program is needed. M3 would call a subprogram which will have M4 inside it. And M4 would call a subprogram with M3 inside it. This would reverse the spindle directions. Any M-code inside a sumprogram called by an M-code, is treated as an ordinary M-code (i.e., it would not call a subprogram).

Thanks Sinha,

I have never used sub programs. Maybe a good incentive to learn to use them...

Andy