Fanuc options

[underthetire]

I have a fairly complete list of option parameters for all but the newest Fanuc controls, from past field service work. I don't give them away, so don't ask. My question though is how can Fanuc go after someone for "illegal" options if the shop that bought the machine now owns the control? They (Fanuc) put the ability (in some cases) to simply change a bit and bang, you have the option. I was told once by someone hi up at Fanuc, they have never gone after anyone to his knowledge, but i'm a cautious type. I know there is now aftermarket memory available, how do they get away with it? Is really illegal, or just scare tactics.

Just wondering...

[jdeere4250]

I have done field service for 15 years, and have probaby all the fanuc options lists.
I dont hand them out either, however it is useful to be able to turn and off certain options when troubleshooting certain problems.
In my mind it is simple, fanuc developed the software, spent an awful lot of money on R/D to do all this. Turning on options is plain old stealing. If you do a days work you want to get paid no doubt. The fact that you can in some cases just change a zero to a one and get the option on, sometimes beclouds the fact that an awful lot of engineering went into this in the beginning.
I can remember one machine I worked one day seemed to have a lot of options turned on that I was sure were not paid for. I did a little investigation, counting up the best I could there were 20 extra options on.
All the newer fanucs you cant turn options any more with dynamic passwords and Control ID codes etc. If you even take a control apart you will have to have fanuc come out and recertify the control to get back to orignal again.
There a couple of concerns I have here If we purchase a cnc we should be able to work on it with or without fanucs assistance. Also If we have paid for whatever options are in the machine we should not have to have fanuc in to, say restore memory.
What this Country needs is to meet the competition of Fanuc head on. What about making CNC controls here in the USA ?. Is there nobody in control here any more ?
Many years ago when this was a real Nation and we had Real people running the show there were many machine tools at plants here that were owned by the Govt. to ensure our Safety and Prosperity. Now we have given all the control away.
To be fair to Fanuc it is a very good product and one reason that they have to tighten up the option scenario is the possibility of Technology getting to wrong hands ie rogue nations. However I think that they can use an opensource PC based control and do anything that want so it really a moot point.

[sti2011]

Time to call the $500.00 an hour contract lawyer I suppose. It would seem hard for me to believe that they would find out if options are turned on after the sale of the machine. Especially if one was careful to change them back to original settings before the tech got there but as a tech did you ever check the "option list" versus the actual? Who are the parameter police? Who would report it even if they found it? They sell them as options to generate revenue obviously, but as you said they are "built in" and really cost them very little. I think some of the things they make you pay for are a crime. One should never have to pay for program edit functions like cut copy and paste. Granted this is now more standard installed but it wasn't not too long ago.
"If a man says something, and there is not a woman in earshot to hear it, is he still wrong?"

[underthetire]

I see a lot more newer machines now that require a initial password and even have tilt sensors in them so they can't be re-located to unfriendly countries. I was always told thats why the taiwan machines always had outdated controls compared to Japanese. I thought it was just a cost thing. It's not so much the controls the government watches for and they still do, trust me , it's the capability of the whole machine as a unit. (accuracy and axis capability)

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by underthetire I was told once by someone hi up at Fanuc, they have never gone after anyone to his knowledge,.

Actually they have, more than once, there was someone that was posting a spreadsheet of option parameters for many of the controls prior to the i series for anyone that requested a copy, this was on one of the CNC News Groups.
There is still alot of his copies floating around.
They did go after him, I don't know what the outcome was but I think they just wanted to scare him, they have also issued a warning to this site I believe.
Personally I think the method used was stupid, you put all the options in the machine and then charge a grand just to send a email with the option in it for you to turn on.
There are some that have spent the time turning the bits on a byte at a time, some will not stay on due to a conflict but this is a way to arrive at what particular option you may want, I know people have done this.
Al.

[sti2011]

I guess we found the option police! Just kidding, I see your point and agree that one should be paid for work but it would be more palatable to have some of these more common needed options, ON to begin with and put the cost into the machine. A lathe without a parts counter? No cut copy and paste? these are small examples of some the neccessary items that they have charged for in the past.
And besides if they gave them away what would the machine tool dealers have to bribe you with if they were free to begin with? And if the dealer turns it on does the money always get back to Fanuc? Yeah right!

[jdeere4250]

HA, never got pulled over by the Special Options Police !!!!!! Seriously what are they going to do, p..... off the customer by checking and turning off options .. never they want yet more of our cash. It is traceable on the newer cnc's but I would have to think right now they are trying to sell more units that being the Options Interpol.
I do agree that some of the options mentioned here a little petty to be charging for.
What about looking at the YASK/Siemens control They seems to loaded with options.

[sti2011]

In the forseeable future I see all new machines hooked up to the Internet 24-7 and then the real problems will start. Gonna have to put firewalls and anti-spyware on them etc.
I would bet that you will be able to rent an option, like on demand or pay per view in the near future. If this is not in development already I would be shocked.
Do you think they would charge to surf for porn at the control? A joke but kinda not really.

[Al_The_Man]

When I got into retrofitting, I found Fanuc hard to deal with, they did not seem interested in the one-off buyer.
Mitsubishi on the other hand just gave me the options I needed, there was no being dinged for every little item.
At the time, Fanuc purportedly had 60% of the world CNC market so they could afford to be indifferent.
Fanuc charged for any training required to install their systems, with Mits, you just had to show up and it was free.
Al.

[jdeere4250]

They would skin a flea for its hide, they are the most greedy sobs ever, I know what you mean. You would think that they would be a little more helpful. Now , no more GEFanuc they will even be worse. A real monopoly.

[WGoyer]

jdeere mentioned that we need a good control made in the USA.

We've done 20 or so retrofits with a software based control by MDSI (www.mdsi2.com) and they don't play the option game. They charge a flat fee up front based on the number of axes you want to control and you get everything after that.

The control is in a league by itself in power and performance, yet allows great lattitude in choice of hardware. Back when we were doing several a year, we were pretty sure it compared favorably with the Fanuc 15/16 series in performance. In fact, we had a union greivance filed against a machine we retrofitted in a Catapillar plant because the "newspaper reading" operator was "scared" by how fast the probing cycle was. We made the cycle time so short he couldn't read anymore.

Unfortunately, because of many factors, the control never reached its potential, but I always enjoyed telling our customers "yes" to their option requests.

Warren
www.uptimecorp.com

[fanucman]

Originally Posted by jdeere4250 They would skin a flea for its hide, they are the most greedy sobs ever, I know what you mean. You would think that they would be a little more helpful. Now , no more GEFanuc they will even be worse. A real monopoly.

Fanuc will at least help you over the phone for free and will send you parts directly under warranty... i work on a lot of machines and tool builders..

fanuc is ALWAYS quick to help and dont give me a hard time... some companies you have to give them ur credit card before you speak with them...

so they dont like you turning on stuff.. i own my satellite antenna and receiver so is it ok to steal channels with a pirated card?