Fanuc 3M-C + Rotary?

[Swemill]

Hi cnc entusiasts!

I have an old (very old), Kitamura Mycenter1 -83 with the Fanuc 3M-C control. Know the control is very old-fashioned but the Mill is in new condition and suited me and my space well.
Now i have plans about mounting a 4'th - rotary axle. Offcourse not an "true" 4'th axis when i dont have a 4'th channel (was there any on the 3M?).
What i want is a "stand alone" rotary table - control for divisions, but i really would want it to be connected to the Fanuc control for "start" and "done" signals.

My plan is to buy the Divisionmaster indexercontrol (Tony Jeffree / Model Engineers Digital Workshop) and connect it to my Vertextype 8-inch rotary table with an steppermotor.
Unfortunately, i don't know anything about the electronics, ladders and input / outputs etc...

My thinking of it is if it can be done with sending signals / M-codes between these units like i want for indexing...
Have been told that it maybe can be done with the "I/O - channel parameter" and RS232 cable and that i also would need "spare input / outputs" on the fanuc control...
There is a "D" socket on the Divisionmaster for external step and direction signals from a 4th channel alternative, + / - and active signals that would need the "spare inputs and outputs" on the Fanuc...?

Can you Fanuc gurus help me with info on this or is it impossible on the 3M-C control.... (i sure don't hope so).
It would be so nice to have parts with many different divisions produced by "working together" controls!

I have all the books - schematics for the mill and control if that can be to help.

With "high hopes" - Joakim, from Sweden.

[f-bu]

For 3M, even 3MC, it is quite difficult to add even index table. Serial channel is not accessible via PMC, the only alternative is to use parallel I/O. You will need 16 outputs for 359,99 position a start output and finish input. Hope you have PC-2 board installed and have at least one honda connector free.
If you want to use the rotary table as A axis only, you can think on connecting it as Y axis temporary. It will be quite long changing procedure, but... it works. The cost will be the cost of the motor and maybe an additional servo drive control board or drive. With it you will be able to switch faster, as each board will store the settings for Y and A. And well, motor should be Fanuc or compatible, with 2000 ppr pulsecoder, same voltage as Y axis motor.

[Dan Fritz]

Do you have the option "User Macro B"? If you do, then you will be able to connect a rotary axis that takes serial (RS232) commands.

Most system 3M-A and 3M-B controls did not come with Macro B, but I believe that the 3MC had the option available. You may be able to have it installed by Fanuc or by a retrofitter at a lower cost than trying to edit the ladder.

Try this experiment: Try to enter a program that has the User Macro B commands:

O0001 ;
POPEN ;
DPRNT[HELLO] ;
PCLOS ;
M30 ;
%

if the program appears like shown above, you may have the option and you can then try to connect a PC to the serial port and see if the 3M is sending the word "HELLO" out the serial port every time you run this program. That would be good news, because now you can just connect a serial rotary axis to your machine using a serial cable.

If the Fanuc shows the Macro statements with spaces in between the letters, like so:

O0001 ;
P O P E N ;
D P R N T[HELLO] ;
P C L O S ;

... then you dont' have the Macro B option, and will have to find someone who can install it for you.

When connecting a PC to your Fanuc, use a standard "9-to-25 NUL MODEM" cable, and set your PC to receive data at the same baudrate that the Fanuc is set for. You can see the Fanuc's baudrate setting in parameters 068 and 069. The baudrate set in parameter 068 is effective if the setting bit marked "I/O" on the setting screen is set to "0", and parameter 069 is effective if the "I/O" setting bit is set to "1". Any DNC program or Hyperterminal can be used to make this test.

If the Fanuc can send DPRNT data from the program using Macro B, then the rotary axis could be moved by making a command like so:

POPEN ;
DPRNT[C180.000] ;
PCLOS ;

There are many types of rotary axes and curvic-coupling type indexers available that can take an RS232 command. Each one may require a slightly different motion command in the DPRNT statement, but they'll all work in a similar way.

[Swemill]

Thank you very much f-bu and Dan Fritz for your reply!
A Fanuc motor and servo would be to expensive for me i'm afraid...

I realy hope that i have the Macro option that you meantion Dan. I will check it as soon as possible (don't have the mill at home). Have read your inputs here about Fanuc controls and are very impressed of your knowledge and "kindness" to help!!!

In my advertising millbrochure the "Custom User Macro" stands under "Options", as you say and in the Operators manual it says: Additional Option No. (15) Custom macro.
I don't know if i have it but i quote the text:

It is available to create specific function by the machine tool builder or user. The following functions can be used:
(1) Variable
(2) Arithmetic operation function
(3) Conditional branch function
(4) skip function

I already have a PC connected to send programs to the Control with RS232. Parameter 068 and 069 is 4800 (I/O set at "0"). A "9-to-25 NUL MODEM" cable, i don't know...?

IF the macro option works, i in other words can't use the divisionmaster control because it's "D"-socket is NOT an RS232 port..? (manual: http://medw.co.uk/storage/attachment...nual-LSCES.pdf )

I've really searched after a control like this and thougt that the divisionmaster was both at a "decent" price and with all the functions... But i will first check the macro option...

[Swemill]

Daamn it..... I couldn't wait to tomorrow and drove to the garage and did the macro test...
Didnt get in the hole prg. and there was spaces between the letters. I also get 073 alarm: "The commanded program has already been used", but i't wasent!
I was worried about it because the control don't accept text / comments in ( ) either... I can't get the "menu-programming" and "parts count / cycle time" display to work either. I would really want those options but that would be hard with this old control (hasent G54 - G59 either)!?
Well, it looks like it will be to complicated and expensive with this so i'm forced to have a divisionmaster as a "stand-alone" control....

[MysticMonkey]

Don't know much about this machine

but another option if you have a spare m-code (check your electrical manual and ladder)

Is a programmable indexer. where you preset all the moves on the rotary axis then call an m-code to move to the next position.

The type of m-code for safe operation must have a finish signal

for unsafe operation it doesn't need this you can use a dwell in the program
and any m-code with an external signal output can be modified to suit

[Swemill]

That is exactly what i want! A simple soulution / connection with a programmable division-control (like divisionmaster) for start & done "controlsignals". It would function with a dwell also instead for the finish signal!

The question is if i have spare m-codes!? The Fanuc manual refers to the machine tool builder's manual, and the machine builders electorical circuit just says that The M20 - m23 is option. Just like it says about time counter and prg.end, that i don't have....
I guess that the only thing is to try out the codes in a program, or must i measure out signals then?

[MysticMonkey]

If your machine doesn't have any spare m-codes

You have the option of re engineering a current m-code IE re routing the coolant on m-code to operate the programmable indexer.
You need a m-code that you don't use that has an output signal to a relay coil.

Using an already existing spare m-code.

Or asking a company to modify the machine to give you a spare m-code

The only thing you really need to watch out for is, that the output signal must match the necessary requirements for the programmable indexer. E.G. length of time, is it on permanently until the m-finish signal is given, voltage

[Swemill]

Alright, thank you for your advice MysticMonkey, that sounds good!
Haven't got the books here at my work but i belive there was 3 different coolants but i only use one (M8-M9). There were also "pallet"-codes but i dont have any pallets.
Can i re-engineering parameters for this myself (if it needs) ?

Do i connect wires (that leads to indexer) directly on the fanuc-relay?

The divisioncontrol external connection, that i want to use have the range of 0-5V. Can that match or Fanuc use higher signalvolts?

Is there any way to test the spare M-codes?

Big thanks for all your info to a novis like me! I'l hope i learn more.

[MysticMonkey]

I would advise against using the pallet change m-codes because these will be linked to many more inputs and outputs in the PLC for safety and automation reasons.


To check the coolant m-code the easiest way would be to take a photo (or remember) the output relays in the electrical cabinet. Run the M-Code perhaps put a dwell first go round the back and look/listen for a relay that is changing.

Or look in your electrical manual

Then you need to measure the voltages with a multimeter, possibly alter the signal voltages by fitting another power source .

There may be some technical difficulties with signal duration only a test will show.

I would advise getting it installed by some one local with the necessary experience.

[Swemill]

Ok, thanks, Understand your worries about me connecting it... =)

ONE more thought from me... I belive i can fix the start signal from fanuc to divisioncontrol, but to pause prg. and from divisioncontrol a "done" signal (when "A" axis is in position) to continue fanuc program..?

Couldn't i as "done"-signal just fool the mill to belive that i've pressed the start button?
Like this:

1. M? (spare M-coolant code for signal to division-movement)
2. (possibly M09 ?, to shut of the M-signal again.)
3. M01 (prg. pause for time to "A"-axis movement)
4. M-code / signal from divisioncontrol to start cnc prg. again. Connected to "memory-start" button on cnc = mill belive i've pressed start
after the M01.

Maybe stupid, but a thougt i belive could work.... IF i can control the "cycle-start" button with a signal!

What do you say MysticMonkey?

[MysticMonkey]

theoretically yes, it sounds like it will work.



But I cannot condone automating the cycle start button and you should worry about applicable health and safety laws in your country.

that said and done you will have to check the output signal from the programmable indexer hopefully it will just switch a supply voltage from the CNC.

and the programmable indexer might supply the m-code signal voltage.