Which positions are which on a 5T control?

[Radius]

Back again.

I have an older lathe with a 5T control.

The manual that came with the machine is woefully inadequate. There are mode settings on the control that aren't documented anywhere in the manual.

Can someone look at this pic (LARGE file

http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.co...SC00124?full=1

Smaller pic is here: http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.co...um587/DSC00124

And tell me what position I need to set the knobs to so I can manually enter a program *and* so that I can upload a program via RS232?

The machine has had the tape drive disconnected and a "Controls West" RS232 board installed. I'm having troubles communicating with this board and the machine in general.

I'd like to make sure that I'm picking the right modes and doing things right so I can get a program in the machine.

Thanks!
Michael

[Dan Fritz]

To erase the program in memory, put mode select rotary switch in MEMORY mode, press the "C" (cancel) key on the number keypad and the ERASE button at the same time.

To store program into memory through the tape reader port (in your case, through the Controls West board: Put the mode select switch in MEMORY position, Get your computer ready to send data, then press the READ button. You must have a "%" at the end of the program or it won't finish reading. Most 5Ts can read both EIA programs and ISO programs. It can not accept decimal points, lower-case letters, or comments within parentheses. If pressing READ does not trigger your PC into sending, you may have to start the DNC software sending manually. That Controls West board is pretty limited, and I don't think you can get support for it anymore.

To reset program to the beginning, put the mode select switch into EDIT mode, then press the RESET button.

To edit a command within your program, or to enter one from scratch manually, put the mode select switch into EDIT mode, and press the SCAN+ and SCAN- keys to scan up to the point in the program where you want to edit something. Run the address LED (using the "left-right" buttons) to the address letter you want to enter, key in the number you want to enter and press INSERT (to insert new data) or ALTER (to alter an existing command). At the end of each block, you must have an EOB (End-of-Block), which you can enter by pressing the EOB key, then the INSERT key. The EOB looks like a funny symbol on the LED display, and it corresponds to the Line-Feed character (LF) in your program.

To run a program that's in memory, put the control into MEMORY mode and press CYCLE START.

If you need a new BTR (Behind the Tape Reader) interface, we have one that bypasses that Controls West board and lets you connect a special cable between your PC and the Fanuc tape reader port. For info on that, visit our West coast distributor, Refresh Your Memory, Inc. at www.rym.com

[John3]

Originally Posted by Radius Back again. I have an older lathe with a 5T control. The manual that came with the machine is woefully inadequate. There are mode settings on the control that aren't documented anywhere in the manual. Can someone look at this pic (LARGE file Thanks! Michael

Michael,

From what I can make out (a bit blurry) and relating it to my 5T controls I've got the following guesses for you; (the more question marks, the less confident I am about it)

From Left to Right, Top to Bottom in three rows, knobs in clockwise rotation.

TOP ROW:
Manual spindle speed selector

Manual Mode select
Turret Index
Speed Set
Spindle Forward
Spindle Reverse
Coolant ON
Coolant OFF

Control Mode Select
Edit Program Memory??
??????????
Run Program from Memory??
Tape Mode (DNC)
Jog ???
Rapid???
MDI

MIDDLE ROW:
Manual Turrret Index Position
Cycle Start?
Feedhold?
No Idea?????

BOTTOM ROW:
M01 Optional Stop
Block Skip Mode (/)
Dry Run?
No Idea???
Zero Return
Jog

Hope this helps!

John

[Radius]

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz To erase the program in memory, put mode select rotary switch in MEMORY mode, press the "C" (cancel) key on the number keypad and the ERASE button at the same time.

Hi Dan!

Is this the same Dan I owe some beer to? If so, I sent you an email long ago regarding that. If you didn't get it please let me know so I can make good on my promise.

Anyway, part of my problem is that I don't know which position *is* the memory position.

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz To edit a command within your program, or to enter one from scratch manually, put the mode select switch into EDIT mode, and press the SCAN+ and SCAN- keys to scan up to the point in the program where you want to edit something. Run the address LED (using the "left-right" buttons) to the address letter you want to enter, key in the number you want to enter and press INSERT (to insert new data) or ALTER (to alter an existing command). At the end of each block, you must have an EOB (End-of-Block), which you can enter by pressing the EOB key, then the INSERT key. The EOB looks like a funny symbol on the LED display, and it corresponds to the Line-Feed character (LF) in your program.

And therein is another problem I'm having. If I put the mode control all the way to the left (10:00 position) I cannot enter any data. If I press any number on the keypad nothing shows up in the display. It *does* work in MDI mode (1:00 position) but then that's only for one line. I can't enter more data. I *must* be doing something wrong but I don't know what it is.

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz If you need a new BTR (Behind the Tape Reader) interface, we have one that bypasses that Controls West board and lets you connect a special cable between your PC and the Fanuc tape reader port. For info on that, visit our West coast distributor, Refresh Your Memory, Inc. at www.rym.com

There's a very good possibility I might need one of these. Quite honestly I'd like to see if I can get this working as is since I'm going to sell this machine. I already have it's replacement in the driveway on the trailer! :O

Thanks,
Michael

[Radius]

Originally Posted by John3 Michael, From what I can make out (a bit blurry) and relating it to my 5T controls I've got the following guesses for you; (the more question marks, the less confident I am about it)

Hi John!

Thanks for the reply.

You're right, the pic isn't all that great.

Here's a better one: http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.co...um587/DSC00045

All the rest of the switches on the machine have explanations. I just need to know what these do.

I may not be right, but I think it goes like this:

10:00 - Program Edit Mode?
11:00 - No Idea
12:00 - No Idea
1:00 - MDI Mode?
2:00 - Single Block Mode?
3:00 - Continuous Block Mode?
4:00 - Manual Mode

So which setting is the "Memory" mode that Dan was referring to?

Thanks,
Michael

[Dan Fritz]

Ah, I see grasshopper. The riddle of the international symbols.

Here's how you can tell which mode is which. Run the little LED under the DGN position and set the 2-digit display number to "04". Rotate that switch just to the left of the "SCAN" buttons. When the right-most bit of diagnostic "04" is a "1", that's your "MDI" Mode postion. When the second bit from the right is a "1", that's your "JOG" position. When the third bit from the right is a "1", that's your "Handle" mode (if you have a handle pulse generator or the "Step Jog" position if you don't).

Now, increment the 2-digit display to "05" and try the other positions. The right-most bit is for "Dry Run", which is not on the mode select rotary switch, the second bit from the right is the EDIT mode, the third bit from the right is the MEMORY mode, and the fourth bit from the right is the TAPE mode.

I'd suggest a Sharpie magic marker.

Yes, I am that Dan Fritz. Beer is food.

[Radius]

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz Ah, I see grasshopper. The riddle of the international symbols. Here's how you can tell which mode is which. Run the little LED under the DGN position and set the 2-digit display number to "04". Rotate that switch just to the left of the "SCAN" buttons. When the right-most bit of diagnostic "04" is a "1", that's your "MDI" Mode postion. When the second bit from the right is a "1", that's your "JOG" position. When the third bit from the right is a "1", that's your "Handle" mode (if you have a handle pulse generator or the "Step Jog" position if you don't). Now, increment the 2-digit display to "05" and try the other positions. The right-most bit is for "Dry Run", which is not on the mode select rotary switch, the second bit from the right is the EDIT mode, the third bit from the right is the MEMORY mode, and the fourth bit from the right is the TAPE mode. I'd suggest a Sharpie magic marker. Yes, I am that Dan Fritz. Beer is food.

LMAO! Yes, the International Symbol riddle has me well and stumped.

Okay.. I will play with that as soon as I get the data off of this old PS/2 I have. You see, that data is very important because it has the software for transferring files to the Ikegai!

I sent you a PM.

Michael

[John3]

Position Your Comment My Guess
------ ------------------ --------------------------------------
10:00 - Program Edit Mode? - - Edit Program in Memory
11:00 - No Idea - - Run Machine Directly From Tape (DNC)
12:00 - No Idea - - Run Machine from Program in Memory
1:00 - MDI Mode? - - MDI
2:00 - Single Block Mode? - - Jog Machine
3:00 - Continuous Block Mode? - - Rapid move Machine
4:00 - Manual Mode - - Manual Mode


I think positions 10, 12, and 1 are fairly certain.

One of the other modes pretty much has to be DNC from tape (your serial card), I'm thinking that's position 11.

I'm only guessing on the others.

John

[Radius]

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz Ah, I see grasshopper. The riddle of the international symbols. Here's how you can tell which mode is which. Run the little LED under the DGN position and set the 2-digit display number to "04". Rotate that switch just to the left of the "SCAN" buttons. When the right-most bit of diagnostic "04" is a "1", that's your "MDI" Mode postion. When the second bit from the right is a "1", that's your "JOG" position. When the third bit from the right is a "1", that's your "Handle" mode (if you have a handle pulse generator or the "Step Jog" position if you don't). Now, increment the 2-digit display to "05" and try the other positions. The right-most bit is for "Dry Run", which is not on the mode select rotary switch, the second bit from the right is the EDIT mode, the third bit from the right is the MEMORY mode, and the fourth bit from the right is the TAPE mode. I'd suggest a Sharpie magic marker. Yes, I am that Dan Fritz. Beer is food.

Dan, that worked great! Except..

Here's what I found out as to what position does what:

10:00 = Edit mode - turns on the 2nd bit in DGN 05
11:00 = Some Memory mode - turns on the 3rd bit in DGN 05
12:00 = Some Memory mode - turns on the 3rd bit in DGN 05
1:00 = MDI mode - turns on 1st bit in DGN 04
2:00 = Single Block Tape mode - turns on 4th bit in DGN 05
3:00 = Continuous Tape Mode - turns on 4th bit in DGN 05
4:00 = Manual Mode - Jog, handwheel, etc - turns on 2nd bit in DGN 04

I'm really really frustrated with this thing.

I put the machine in edit or any of the memory modes and it will NOT allow me to enter ANY data. The ONLY mode I can input data is in MDI mode. And even then I have to use "Input" instead of "Insert"

I cannot get the machine/controls west board to communicate with my PC. The only thing I know for SURE is that the COM port on the PC works. Other than that it's anyone's guess. I tried a regular db9 to db9 cable and a null modem adapter. I tried every single mode selection followed by pressing "Read" and then telling the comm program to send. I can't get a connection.

There are DIP switches on the Controls West board. I didn't mess with them, but maybe someone else did?

I don't really have the money right now to replace the BTR board. This machine is going to be for sale so that makes things even worse.

Is there *anywhere* out there to get some documentation on this board? Is Controls West still in business? Google didn't turn up much.

*sigh* I really dislike how things are so secretive in this business sometimes. I know people are entitled to make a living, but sheesh, for little guys like me it's impossible.

I do appreciate the help from all of you guys. I'm just frustrated at the moment.

Thanks,
Michael

[Dan Fritz]

I'm not at my office right now, so I can't access my file cabinet. I think I have some notes on the Controls West board around somewhere. If I find anything, I'll let you know by tomorrow.

If the old Fanuc paper tape reader is still installed, you should be able to do a test. Plug the 50-pin ribbon cable from the tape reader into the Fanuc A board (the PTR connector). Then, watch the little "shoe" underneith the roller that pulls the tape through the reader. The roller should be running all the time, and the shoe "clicks in" when the CNC tries to read a tape. If you put the control into TAPE mode and press CYCLE START, or put the control into MEMORY mode and press READ, the little shoe should click in. When you press RESET the shoe should release. That'll tell you that the control is TRYING to read.

If that works, then the Controls West board should work too (if it's healthy).l

[Radius]

Originally Posted by Dan Fritz I'm not at my office right now, so I can't access my file cabinet. I think I have some notes on the Controls West board around somewhere. If I find anything, I'll let you know by tomorrow. If the old Fanuc paper tape reader is still installed, you should be able to do a test. Plug the 50-pin ribbon cable from the tape reader into the Fanuc A board (the PTR connector). Then, watch the little "shoe" underneith the roller that pulls the tape through the reader. The roller should be running all the time, and the shoe "clicks in" when the CNC tries to read a tape. If you put the control into TAPE mode and press CYCLE START, or put the control into MEMORY mode and press READ, the little shoe should click in. When you press RESET the shoe should release. That'll tell you that the control is TRYING to read. If that works, then the Controls West board should work too (if it's healthy).l

Thanks Dan..

I honestly think I have a combination of 2 problems:

#1 I can't get the machine to read a tape. I'm using the wrong settings, or doing something in the wrong combination

#2: I have a cabling or configuration issue with the controls west board.

The reason why is I did try disconnecting the controls west board and reconnecting the original tape drive last night. Following the very hazy instructions in the manual, I tried to read and punch "tape" last night and got nothing.

Of course, I could be doing everything right on the control but the cabling/interface problem is preventing it from working. The old tape drive itself could be dead too for all I know.

None of which explains why I cannot even enter in a program manually. I'll be ohming out the switches and buttons tonight when I get home from work in the off chance that perhaps the reason why nothing it is working right is a connection issue.

Thanks for all your help!
Michael

[Radius]

Update:

I played around with it some more tonight. Here's more information:

I hooked the tape drive back up again. If I put the mode selector in "Tape Continuous" or "Tape Block Mode" I get a "CLICK" from the tape drive when I press CYCLE START.

That is the *only* way I can get the tape drive to do anything. It seems to me that these modes are for drip feeding? OR perhaps these are the modes I need to use to get the RS232 to work. I did reconnect the Controls West board and tried it, still no connection.

I still cannot manually enter in a program. It just won't let me. If I select MDI I can enter numbers from the "DATA" keys. But not either of the MEMORY modes.

Is it possible I have a parameter set wrong and that's why I can't enter data in any of the memory modes either tape or manually? This lathe came to me with dead batteries and the parameters completely wiped out. I had to reinput them from the manual.

Dan, you may remember that my original problem with this machine was that when powered on, the turret would rapid at full X and Z "-" until hitting the chuck, at which point the fuses in the Velocity Control units would blow. After I got the parameters reentered that problem was fixed.

The manual is *very* hazy about what parameter does what. Maybe I've got something wrong in the parameters?

Edit: Just for fun I scanned the parameters page out of my manual and uploaded it. It's in .pdf format.

Thanks,
Michael