Missing Ladder 21TA

[JMS4287]

"Accidently" a Star SH-7 with a Fanuc 21-TA control was powered up while holding the 7 & 9 keys...low and behold, it appears the Ladder is now missing(who would have guessed)...fortunately we have 3 other machines that "should" have the same ladder..I'm able to D/L the ladder out of other machines without a problem, and loading into this "dead" machine seems to go off without a hitch...but then, after the ladder transfer is complete I'm getting a pmc alarm ER01 PROGRAM DATA ERROR (RAM), and of course the ladder still appears to be missing...anybody have any suggestion, thoughts, or idea's to send me in the right direction ????

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who reply's

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[RLMTS]

Hi,
Not familiar with 21, but all our 16 / 18 Model A's PMCs are in EPROM (UV)
Is yours definitely RAM?
Anyway, see this document for further explanation of PMC RAM issues(if you have not already seen it)
http://www.expresscnc.co.uk/engineer/oialarms.pdf
PDF p.16 (original document p.316)
Hope this may help.
Rich

[JMS4287]

Hi,
Not familiar with 21, but all our 16 / 18 Model A's PMCs are in EPROM (UV)
Is yours definitely RAM?

Thanks.

That's where I'm confused, K17#3 is/was already set to 0, which I think implies ROM.. Is it possible the ladder is still there, and just not loading at boot up..everything else is still there, pmc/nc params etc..just the ladder appears missing...I get PMC Alarm ER22 PROGRAM NOTHING, until I upload a ladder, then I get the RAM error.... and I find it very hard to believe that holding the 7 + 9 keys at bootup would wipe the ladder clean, with having to unlock something first.

[alexfanuc]

Thanks.

That's where I'm confused, K17#3 is/was already set to 0, which I think implies ROM.. Is it possible the ladder is still there, and just not loading at boot up..everything else is still there, pmc/nc params etc..just the ladder appears missing...I get PMC Alarm ER22 PROGRAM NOTHING, until I upload a ladder, then I get the RAM error.... and I find it very hard to believe that holding the 7 + 9 keys at bootup would wipe the ladder clean, with having to unlock something first.

Check parameters 9900 first. What value in 9930 thru 9950?
Why did you power on holding 7 +9 ?
Regards

[JMS4287]

Somebody held the 7+9 trying to get to the Boot Screen, like holding the two soft keys on newer controls....

here's a list of those params...Thank you for your time...


9900 = 2

9930
00010100
9931
00000000
9932
10000000
9933
10000000
9934
01000000
9935
00000000
9936
00000000
9937
00000000
9938
00000000
9939
00000000
9940
00000100
9941
00000000
9942
00000000
9943
00011000
9944
00000000
9945
00000000
9946
00000001
9947
00000000
9948
00000000
9949
00000000
9950
00000000

[alexfanuc]

Holding 7 + 9 at power on will erase the memory in a powermate. Could this be a powermate?
The parameters you sent seem to be ok.
When you try to upload the ladder, do you get any alarms?

[JMS4287]

I believe it is a powermate...

I've attached the Fanuc datasheets for the machine, and a photo of the drives in the back on the machine, which show some kind or memory card. I'm hopeing that's a backup of the the pmc data..


Thanks again for your time..

[alexfanuc]

Ok.
You have two cnc. One is the 21A and the other is the Powermate E. You probably lost parameters in the powermate E not in the 21A control. Now, you have a flash card which is good. The only thing is that you must restore memory from it and most of the people load the bad memory into the the flash card, so becareful!. You must upload from the memory card to the powermate.
One question:
Are you able to see the parameters in the powermate? You should see all the parameters in zero and some alarms.

To load from the memory card into the Powermate:

1)Put control in Emergency stop condition.
2)Set switch SW2 to Load (located in the powermate) (Do not touch the flash card, must stay in the powermate)
3)Green Led S1 will light
4)Push switch SW1 (data input is started)
Green led S1 and red led S0 will flicker
5)If data was input correctly then the leds will be shown as follows:
Green Led S1 will light. Red led S0 will be off.
If something is wrong Red led will be flickering.
6) Set switch SW2 to Normal
Good luck!

[JMS4287]

One question:
Are you able to see the parameters in the powermate? You should see all the parameters in zero and some alarms.

Thanks again Alex...I can see all NC and PMC parameters, and they are all still there. There are multiple alarms due to the missing ladder. (OT + and - on all axis, etc.) The only thing missing is the Ladder. I don't think I can see anything in the Powermate without a "Pendant", I believe I have one here somewhere..I have somebody from Fanuc Boston coming into in the morning. I've got a couple of other machines that "should" have the same ladder. So hopefully I can get the data out of those machines if need be...I'd like to just restore the ladder if possible, I don't have a backup of the NC parameters,which are probably somewhat differant than the other machines, and I can't output them without a running ladder. But what you're saying makes total sense, if the ladder is running on the powermate and not the 21a. But I'm going to wait for some one from Fanuc to be here, before I try reloading to data to the powermate, just incase the data on that card is bad, I'll let you know how I make out...

[JMS4287]

A Fanuc guy was here yesterday, and now the machine has a ladder again. We had another machine with the same ladder, that had memory in the 21TA control, with a backup of the F-Rom on it...so we were able to load the ladder back in with that... All we had to do was load the load the 4th file from the card (which was the ladder). the trick was knowing how to load only the 4th file, I didn't have backup of any of NC params, etc..

To load the 4 file, we had to type M00001000 {READ} {EXECUTE}
bit 3 being the 4th file, bit 0 being the 1st file etc,

This is a list of the order of the backup files on a 21TA backup memory card (atleast it was me)
1= program
2= parameters and pitch
3= variables and offsets
4= Ladder
5= PMC
6 = operation history
7 = Macro executor ( requires 512K flash card)

[Tarunbir]

Hi
I have the same problem on star sh12. But don't have a backup machine. Can u guys help.
ER22 program has nothing.

It is giving 506 and 507 alarms as a result.

[JMS4287]

What exactly do you need, Power Mate Ladder, Or Machine Ladder?
What's the Machine S/N?
Have you checked the Control and/or Power Mate to see if there's a memory card in it (See photo from a few posts back).

[Tarunbir]

Hi
I need the complete back up if possible or else just the ladder should be sufficient. I do have the parameters noted down.
But not the ladder. If you can mail me the ladder. Can load it with help of Fanuc people here.
S/n no. 050810.

Do have the flash card. But no back up in that. Fanuc guy came to check that. But he says need the ladder.
Star won't provide service in India. Had a talk with them also.

[bingodino]

A Fanuc guy was here yesterday, and now the machine has a ladder again. We had another machine with the same ladder, that had memory in the 21TA control, with a backup of the F-Rom on it...so we were able to load the ladder back in with that... All we had to do was load the load the 4th file from the card (which was the ladder). the trick was knowing how to load only the 4th file, I didn't have backup of any of NC params, etc..

To load the 4 file, we had to type M00001000 {READ} {EXECUTE}
bit 3 being the 4th file, bit 0 being the 1st file etc,

This is a list of the order of the backup files on a 21TA backup memory card (atleast it was me)
1= program
2= parameters and pitch
3= variables and offsets
4= Ladder
5= PMC
6 = operation history
7 = Macro executor ( requires 512K flash card)

JMS4287, can you help me! Can we type M00001000 in what screen?

[JMS4287]

I've attached procedure.

[bingodino]

Thanks again JMS4287.

[paramadc]

what type of memory card you use?

[paramadc]

I believe it is a powermate...

I've attached the Fanuc datasheets for the machine, and a photo of the drives in the back on the machine, which show some kind or memory card. I'm hopeing that's a backup of the the pmc data..


Thanks again for your time..

what type memory card you use?