Hitachi Seiki 4NE11 Fanuc 6TB

[cnc-it]

Hi fired up my Hitachi Seiki lathe today after it has sat idle for some time.
First I got a battery alarm on the Micon8 controller. So I swapped the batteries whilst the machine was switched on and now it seems to work fine. I can search for data adresses and check machine states etc.

I can home and jog the machine, all looks good with no alarms on the Fanuc side.

But I can't run anything from MDI and I can't run a program.

I have a power alarm on the Micon8. On 28A all the digits are 1 accept the 24v which is 0 and ok.

But have checked all the power supplies and all are ok.

Is the Micon a programable controller with ladders on it? Wondering if I've lost the ladders when the battery went low?

There is no Fanuc PC model A or B board in the machine and none showing in the diagnostics..could it be missing?

The MDI start key is showing as working in the diag screen. The cycle start button is not showing as working but the reset button is. I can't jog the spindle from the manual control panel but most of the other buttons and switches work including the foot pedals for the chuck.

I can read from tape in memory mode as well.

Thanks in advance for any help I'm really lost on this one!!

John

[tc429]

pc model A dont have a card...look for chips in sockets 241/242 on the ROM board- usually they'll have different looking labels as they are burned by the OEM on the old 'pc programmer' suitcase thing (Ive still got one- not many of those around anymore). pc diagnostic/keep bits on a 6 are seen by hitting 'param' key twice, 'pc parameter' display will pop up at top of screen with a couple pages for setting PC bits...

we had a HitachiSeiki that had their 'seicos' add on plc, batteries died, we spent a month getting it running again...dont recall the service groups name here in the US, but early every morning they would call a guy somewhere in asia and act as interpreter for the latest symptom...he'd say to punch in FF-3A-65 or some other inane hex code and see if it worked...after a week the thing would home, 2 more weeks the ATC kinda worked, another week to get the lube/coolant right...every time we'd change one thing, it would affect 2 others, due to time difference had to wait till next day to call again.

saddest part was they wrote the PC-a ladder anyway- just to talk to their unneeded add-on PLC. Had they fully utilized the Fanuc PLC they coulda had a lot nicer/simpler system. that was the worst dead battery situation ive ever seen, and IMO the poorest written/'over hardwared' interface mess ive ever seen too... hope the micon8 is not as bad.

[cnc-it]

Thanks TC I remember now reading that in the Fanuc manual that the PC model A set up has the chips on the Rom board. will check for this next week.

What exactly is the Micon 8 and how can I tell if the low battery has affected anything? I've done the voltage checks on the Micon 8 using the check pins and all is well.

Most things seem to work on the machine but can't understand the power alarms I am getting.

I have AC 100v error, NC fuse blow out and sequencer power supply 12v error.

Funny thing is all my power supplies are working fine...and the Fanuc isn't showing any alarms.

Could it be my Fanuc connection board thats faulty. Have read that those reed relays can stick..would this cause the MDI and program execution not to work?

Thanks again for the help!
John.

[cnc-it]

One thing I have noticed is my oil pump is coming in every 15mins as regular as clockwork I'm thinking that is controlled by the Micon8 so it might be working ok?
John

[tc429]

if the micon is like the seicos, theres a separate rack inside one of the panels with a 'door' that swings out to access the boards/supply/connectors of their 'PC'. on ours IIRC the batteries for the seicos were 4 little AA cells in a radioshack looking holder tucked inside the panduit out of sight or on back of one of the boards...recall they werent obvious without opening something up...
ours corroded in storage, werent low, but totally dead. perhaps a low voltage condition *might* halt operation before data is lost...no idea.


I dont have my connection list handy, but make sure your *SP (feedhold) signal is '1' in diagnostics- have seen a lot of normally closed contacts on those old Fuji buttons go bad...*SP should go to '0' when button is hit. if the feed hold signal is low, nothing will 'start' by the cycle button.
Keep in mind that signal should be at least 2 places in the diagnostic tables, one for the actual 'X' input bit, and one for the 'G' bit back to the cnc side...if the red light changes with the button press, there might be a third bit for that 'Y' output too. If you only see one bit changing, chances are something in the Fanuc ladder is waiting for another input...if NO bits are observed changing when you hit/release the feedhold, I'd look at the button contacts. *if* the button contacts are bad, often just hitting the button repeatedly will clean the contacts enough they kinda work for a while. Feedhold and Estop typically arent hit very often, see a lot of them not want to close again once released...


I think youre right in the lube time being in the hitachi pc, probably a good sign

as far as the little chip looking 5v reeds on the fanuc I/O card(s), 90% of the time just strumming agross them lightly with a plastic screwdriver handle will usually free the stuck contacts right up - for a while at least.

good luck

[cnc-it]

Thanks TC lots to check

Reading the manual I can check DGN 245 bits 0 and 1 to check if I have pc model A or an Hitachi version.

00 is without pc
01 is PC model A
10 is PC model B

And DGN 000 bit 5 has the STL signal on it so can check that for the start button working. I think the cotacts might be bad here.

Also the diagnostics are duplicated so 000 to 031 are duplicated from 064-095
and these can be used for changing the sate of a diagnostic bit for testing. Not sure how risky that is though..


I can also check diagnostic 700 bit 5 to see if there is an interlock on.

Need to check the auto manual key switch as well. Its a rotary switch operated by a key and the whole mechanism seems to be loose in the mounting plate so although I can't use it in manual mode if I turn the key to auto, I think it might not be going properly in to auto mode? Presume this would stop me using MDI and cycle start.

John

[cnc-it]

Well got the MDI working. I had removed the doors to do some repairs. I just tie wrapped both limit switches back so the control didn't think a door was open..hadn't realised one switch is off and one on when the door is closed!

The diagnostics now look good when I press cycle start. I havn't got my manual to hand but they all checked out when I ran in MDI.

I also re-checked the parameters in the Micon 8. They match the print out that came with the machine so all looks good there.

I still have a voltage alarm on 28A for 100V 12V and nc fuse blow out. Wondering if a breaker is switched off somewhere..

The next problem I now have is the spindle won't run. Its a Fuji DSR compact DC drive. If I MDI a spindle speed in high gear it just sits there with the sart lamp lit? No alrarms and no life in the spindle motor at all. No voltage too it.

It looks like the magnetic contactor for the drive isn't coming in.

More checks with the volt meter tomorrow!

Funny thing is I don't have a program library. I have to call progs up in edit using O and curser down. Is this normal with 6TB?

Btw I have no pc model A or B on the Fanuc side. Must all be done with the Seicos Micon 8. No eproms on the Rom board for the PC model A.

John

[fordav11]

if you press PROG twice it will give you a program list. Hmmm, that's probably 10-series and upwards.
On 6-series you can get a listing errr.... somehow I have been away from 6's for ~5 years, my memory is failing me
yes to call up a program you type O then numbers and press cursor down. that's how it is on 6-series.


ah! I searched an old memory brain backup on an external brain and found the answer.
On Fanuc 6-series a program directory can be displayed by pressing CAN then ORIGIN while in EDIT mode.

[cnc-it]

Thanks I'll try that. My other machines are 6B11's and I can press prog key twice to get to prog library..not on this one though! It's a 6b maybe they are different??

Checked my phases into the machine today. In the Manual it says I should have 200-220V. I have one at 240V and two at 105V?? Now I'm wondering if my transformer is faulty...

The spindle contactor refuses to come in when I do G97 M41 S1000. It just sits there with the cycle start lamp on. No power to the spindle drive and no alarms at all?

Now I'm confused

John

[tc429]

if you are checking leg to leg, the common leg of the two youre seeing 105 on has a blown fuse...bet your machine is single phasing

if you are checking leg to ground, go back and check leg-to-leg...leg to ground wont tell you anything on most machines as theres almost always some degree of insulation breakdown, even a little will distort leg to ground (unless feeding from a wye transformer)
Tim

[cnc-it]

Checked again accross phases and it's reading 220V which is what I should have so all ok there. Brain fade on my part I was checking leg to ground!

Have traced the fault to the 52X 24V relay that energises the magnetic contactor for the spindle drive which is on the Seiki distribution board. The relay is working fine as I swapped it with one identical unit used for the hydraulic circuit on the same board. For some reason it's not receiving 24V. I think the signal to power this relay comes from the Fanuc connection board(A20B-0008-0540).

There is a seiki board full of reed relays attached to the Fanuc connection board which is also linked to the Micon controller. When I press cycle start, feed hold etc I can hear these relays working/clicking. The 52X relay is on the distribution board which is linked to both the Fanuc conection board and the micon controller and the seiki reed relay board!!!

I don't have a honda plug connected to C08 on the motherboard for the analogue spindle command so I think the micon handles this?

Thanks for all the help so far it's a steep learning curve for me!!

John

[Dan Fritz]

Fanuc 6TB program library is usually displayed by pressing the red "CAN" button, then the "ORIGIN" Button. Some models you had to press and hold CAN, then press ORIGIN, but others you had to press CAN, release it, then press ORIGIN. It should list the program numbers in bubble memory, then give you a number of bytes left in program memory.

Lots of spindle drives of that era used a 12-bit binary speed command for the S-code. Look at parameter 000 bit #3 (4th bit from the right). If that's a "1", you have 12-bit binary output to the spindle drive. If parameter 000 bit 4 (5th bit from right) is a "1", then you have an analog output to the spindle drive.

The 12-bit binary signals for spindle speed are output on Honday connector C05 (marked CDC4 on the schematics) They're "open collector" outputs from the Connections unit (IO card). The spindle should be getting a "Spindle forward" signal and a "Spindle reverse" signal to make the spinde drive run forward & reverse. These are usually just contact closures on the CNC side. In your case, I'll bet these two signals come from the HS PLC, although the might be coming from decoded M-code relays on the Fanuc I/O board. Without a PC model A ladder diagram, it would be hard to tell.

Do you have a document with the Ladder diagram for the PC model A? That would tell us a lot.