FAGOR 800TI ERROR HELP

[DEBERRY88]

G'day Everyone

I require some assistance with a Fagor 800TI on a used lathe I bought about a year ago. We have finally fired it up today but it brings up an error code PLC<26 every time the start button is pressed. Could anyone please advise how to deal with this? The machine was in working order when removed from previous owner.
Thanks
David

[TAProwler]

DEBERRY,
You can find the manuals for your controller here:

:: FAGOR AUTOMATION ::

Scroll down to the 800M&T section.

Also, check out the PLC and PLCI .pdf files in the 8025 section above - there is a lot of info in there about the 800T PLC.

Hope it helps.
R/Todd

[DEBERRY88]

Hi Todd

Thanks for your reply and suggestions.
I do already have the original manuals that came with the machine and the "General parameter table" printout as used to commission the machine.
The manual says
026 This error is issued in the following cases
> memory overflow
> not enough free tape or cnc memory to store the part program

Not being familiar with Fagor, despite extensive reading through all the manuals I have not been able to find anything relating to this error or how to rectify it.
I don't understand how either of the above error messages apply when all I have done is attempt to turn the machine on.
Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated

Cheers
David

[TAProwler]

Hey Mate,

I took a look at that too, and those error codes are errors that get returned when you run a part program and relate to the actual program code (G codes, M codes, etc. and their use or syntax, etc.)

In your original post the error was a PLC<26 error. I think that the PLC error codes are a different set of error codes. The PLC is a different beast altogether. I'm learning a F8025M, and mine does not have a PLC - so I'm not too smart in that area yet.

But, I don't mind learning some, becasue I also have a 3 axis mill with a F8040M controller that DOES have a PLC - and I haven't done anything with that machine yet except turn it on and jog the axes.

Have a look at this PLCI manual: http://www.fagorautomation.co.kr/pub.../8025/plci.pdf

Look on the .pdf page 131/189 and you will see this under the COMPILE paragraph:

If the program is not correctly edited, the PLC ends the "compiling" function and it shows the corresponding message.

This message will indicate the first error line detected and why it is wrong.
Once the error has been corrected in the editing mode, the program must be
compiled again.

My guess is that the machine is trying to compile the PLC program @ start-up and it hits an error @ line 26 of the PLC program.

I don't know how to do it yet, but try to find out how to "get into" the PLC program and look @ line 26 to find out what it is dealing with. That may give a clue to what is "not happy" (for lack of a better term).

My first thought is that since you are "re-installing" this machine - there is some part of the machine that is not hooked up yet, or maybe not hooked up correctly. The machine might be looking for a signal that is not there or vice-a-versa - or not the correct signal; or whatever.

On my machine it was the E-stop system. I finally found the one little switch that wasn't "happy" and was causing the E-stop to not send the "turn on" signal to the servo control power relay.

Please understand that this is all just my analysis of what I know from your posts and reading the manual a little. I hope I don't send you off on a wild goose chase, but it is what I'd do if it were my situation.

Happy hunting. Stick with it, and you'll figure it out.
R/Todd

[DEBERRY88]

Hi Todd
Thanks for your latest input.
Now that you have pointed it out it makes sense about the error code. I was curious why the machine showed it as Error PLC<26 but the manual showed it as 026 with no PLC prefix.
You have given me somewhere to start and I thank you for that. I will start investigating as you suggested and if you have any other thoughts please feel free, I don't mind goose chases and if nothing else it is all a learning experience!

Cheers
David

[DEBERRY88]

G'day All

I am still trying to solve my error problem.

Due to the position of the power master switch in relation to the screen I didn't realize that the General Test was being performed as it had always disappeared by the time I walked to the screen. So the good news is that it is doing the test and it does pass!! It will then happily sit there indefinitely. When I press the start button on the console which I believe is to engage the drives etc nothing happens for approx 15 seconds and then the error code comes up, Error PLC<26. Once this code comes up the only way clear it is by switching off the power, the clear and reset button will not clear it(it does clear it but then comes straight back).
I have tested all my limit, home, spindle cover switches and all operate correctly.
Following Todds suggestion (thanks Todd!!) about trying to access the PLC program, I have made up a RS232c cable to try and interface the PLC from my PC. Hopefully I will be able to experiment with this in the next couple of days. Unfortunately no PLC program was supplied with the machine but the General Parameters list was.
Another thing I have noticed is that after the general test, either before or after pressing the "start" button I get no response from the keypad. By this I mean it has power to it in that the emergency stop works, the clear and reset work, and pressing any of the buttons produces a "beep" but nothing actually happens. ie pressing the aux will not bring up any menus as per the manual.

If anybody would like to throw in any ideas it would be much appreciated!

Cheers
David

[TAProwler]

Hey David,

I think that the only button on my machine that will do anything after system test "Passed" is the Op Mode button.

Did you try that? That brings up the menu list to choose from for performing a variety of functions.

Hope it's as simple as that. Let us know.
R/Todd

[DEBERRY88]

G'day Todd

Thanks for your input again!

The 800TG-i doesn't have an "OP Mode" button like the 8025. The equivalent function key appears to be the AUX on the 800. Unfortunately it only "beeps" when pressed but doesn't bring up the option menus as suggested by the manuals.
I was able to play with Fagor's WINDNC program today and thanks to a good friend with computer know how it works perfectly. Unfortunately it doesn't help in trying to solve my PLC error as on the 800 series it does not allow monitoring of PLC variables and resources (it will for the 8050 & 8055)

I'll keep you posted

Cheers
David

[TAProwler]

Hey Dave,
Oh, yeah. I forgot you had the 800TI not the 8025T. There is a gent who lives near me that operates an 8025T a lot. I'll PM him and ask him to look this thread over. Maybe he can think of something.
Cheers,
Todd

[DEBERRY88]

G'day Everyone

My latest discovery in trying to get my lathe up and running is that the 3Amp fuse located beside I/O 1 on the Fagor controller has blown.
I replaced the fuse with the correct type and as soon as the master switch was turned on the fuse blew again.
Any suggestions as to what would be causing this fuse to blow would be appreciated

Cheers
David

[TAProwler]

Hi David,
Nice work on your continued troubleshooting. Looking at the OEM manual, on [pdf] page 49 of 224, it says that this fues is:

4- Fuse. 3.15Amp./250V fast fuse (F) to protect the internal I/O circuitry of the CNC.

With the I/O circuitry not powered, the PLC program was not "seeing" something that it needed to "see" to be "happy." So, my educated guess is that this fuse problem is what is causing the PLC error message that you are getting. That's the good news.

The bad news is, troubleshooting the blowing fuse is going to be a little more technical. With a schematic of the I/O circuitry, it might be possible to figure out what is going on, but that will only be able to be obtained thru Fagor. That might be expensive (at best) and maybe impossible (at worst case). They will probably prefer that you send it in for service.

But, before that - it MIGHT be possible to fix this without the expense of having to have the controller serviced or replaced. Look closely at each and every wire that is connected to any of the pins of either I/O-1 or I/O-2. It will be a long and tedious process, but if you trace each and every wire thru the machine, you might find one that MIGHT be causing a short somewhere. That might be shorting an internal power suppy of some kind that is blowing the fuse. I/O-1 pinout is detailed on [pdf] page 58 of 224. I/O-2 pinout is detailed on [pdf] page 63 of 224.

The pictoral view of the pinouts of the 37 pin d-sub can be seen here: http://pinouts.ru/connector/37_pin_D...onnector.shtml

The pinout of the 25 pin d-sub can be seen here: http://pinouts.ru/connector/25_pin_D...onnector.shtml

In particular, I would focus on I/O-1 pins 30, 32, 34 and 36 that provide +/- 10Vdc to the various axes. Then, if all that checks out, start looking at any pin that is used that is related to any +/- Vdc. Chances are one of these is shorting somewhere and shorting the fuse for the associated, internal power supply.

Good luck and happy trouble hunting.
R/Todd

[TAProwler]

I also thought of a couple more things David.

Maybe as a 1st pass troubleshooting method, try unpluging all of the I/O cables from the back of the control unit, then replace the fuse and then turn it on.

You'll likely not get a self test pass, BUT if the fuse still blows, then you pretty much know that the fault is within the controller itself - and will probably need service from a trained technician.

If the fuse DOES NOT blow, then you know that it's something on the machine side of the I/O connectors that is causing the fuse to blow (like a shorted +/-10V power to the spindle for example). You could also plug in one I/O connector at a time and find out which one causes the fuse to blow. That will narrow down the number of wires you'll have to trace by eliminating one connector's worth of wires. Then you could begin tediously tracing wires to find the fault.

To start to trace these out, completely unpower and unplug all of the connectors on the back of the controller. Then use a good Ohm-meter to test each of the +/- Vdc pins (on the plug itself - not the controller) to ground and see what you get.

If 3 of the 4 have some resistance close to the same value (say 2.4 ohms, 3.4 ohms, and 2.8 ohms for example - I have no idea what a real value would be), BUT 1 of the 4 is quite a different value (say .1 ohms) - then follow that wire first in looking for a short or other fault.

DON'T put an ohmeter onto any of the pins on the connectors on the back of the controller. Without knowing what is in there, you could do damage instead of finding damage. Most everything on the "other end" of the I/O cables will be able to withstand the probing with a typical ohm-meter.

This testing might be inconclusive - it depends on where these +/-10Vdc signals go. Mostly what you're looking for is some kind of a short before these wires goes into the servo control cards. But, the servo control cards could be bad too and could be shorting the +/-10Vdc to ground. It's really hard to say.

I'm hoping that by tracing these wires one at a time, you'll find a wire that is bent around a sharp corner and the shielding has frayed and rubbed into a "hot" wire. Or, maybe find one of the connectors has frayed has wires that are shorting somehow. I'm really hoping that it is not a problem that is internal to the controller, because that will be expensive - and maybe cost prohibitive for a controller that is as "well seasoned" as that one.

Good Luck.
R/Todd