Fadal 4020HT general noob questions

[MBX5]

We got our 4020 in yesterday from auction, and the rigger correctly had the counterbalance pinned - a relief.

It is a 1995 4020HT model with rigid taping, and the CNC88HS control.

We got it set, leveled, and powered up. All axis jog, and the spindle works...good signs.

I also purchased about 40 tool holders at the same auction. They are BT40, and the machine is CAT40 - but they seem to fit and chuck into the spindle and tool changer just fine...??

Few stupid questions:

1.) Does rigid tapping require speed taps or any special taps? Can I just use standard high quality taps in the tool holders?
2.) Does a tap require a special tool holder?


Thanks

[DareBee]

You need to use machine taps (as opposed to hand taps).
Any holder should work for rigid tapping (chuck, collet, Etc.)

BT holders will NOT work in the ATC.
You will need to change the holding fingers in the ATC.
Make sure as well that you have the correct pull studs because those tools may not be from that machine.

OTOH it IS possible that someone else has already converted that machine to BT and forgot to make a note of it on the machine label.
I would have your FADAL tech take a look.

[Neal]

MBX5--
You can use standard taps. I recommend GH3 grade taps. You should use a rigid tap holder. They are available and fit into a 1" end mill holder. Theyu drive the tap off the flats so you don't have to worry about the tap spinning in a collet.
You can conver the CAT ATC to accept the BT holder is you want to. You will need to replace the clips in the pockets of the turrent and turn the turret plate over. You will also need to reset the Cold Start position of the Z axis.
It is not rocket science to accomlpish.

Neal

[MBX5]

Thanks!! We are just getting started and learning from square 1. We integrate industrial robots (fanuc, motoman, etc) so we are familiar with programming, however CNC is new to us - this site is great!!

[fizzissist]

We have essentially the same machine....a '99 factory remanufactured, also with rigid tapping.

That feature alone is, if god has given us anything, a blessing. I just did 120 blind-hole 0-80s in 304 SS and it was perfectly painless. (I cheated...used a thread former with a .057 drill and a little dab of MolyD instead of flood coolant..)

Also bought the Tapmatic holders (expensive, yikes!) and have had no problems that weren't my own creation. Trust me, I've been very creative...

If you're new to the CNC thing, another blessing is Notepad. Yeah, Window's own Notepad. Collect a library of operations, open two Notepads side-by-side, then all you need to do is cut and paste to throw together a simple program. 90% of what we do is onezies and twozies, with some short-run stuff, and it saves a bunch of time. BTW, writing G-code the hard way is still a great way to learn not only how to write it, but proof it as well. Knowing how to read it is as important as anything when you've got a buggy program.

The canned cycles in the machine are also pretty good, so we use Format 1 to take advantage quite often. That's where things like the pocketing routines and cut & paste speed things up and save headaches. We've got Mastercam X3 and I still use Notepad and the canned cycles a lot.

We've had ours for 7 years now, just had our first official service call to just go over the machine and make adjustments like gibs, amp gain, and the like. The machine has been essentially trouble free for us....granted, we treat it like royalty...but it's been a good machine for us. Hope it is for you too!

[MBX5]

Thanks good to know. Our machine has seen some use from its previous life. When the time comes we will rebuild it.

We rebuild industrial robots for a living, so a CNC will be somewhat the same...the mechanics are not an issue.. I kind of wish we went with something with a Fanuc control because we have hundreds of spare parts like encoders, boards, motors, etc. that are used on robots...but nonetheless we should be able to take care of issues if they arise.

We are using BobCAM V23 right now to experiment with. I create solid models in Solidworks and open the parts with BobCAM.

We started getting a few G-code glitches like having a G53 on the same line with another G-code which we found causes issues.

I can read the G-code and understand what is happening such as the spindle on, coolant on, rapid travel, etc etc...

I ran into some errors today such as Bad R value or something of the sort - something with the canned routine for drilling the hole and having the R and I value issues...

I am anxious to test the rigid tapping function... I think I have some holders specific for tapping... They had some speed taps in them and seem to have some hydraulic compliance built into them - but they only hold a certain size tap... and they are a quick-release style that looks like you can remove to put a bigger size in??

We are still very new to this but it is fun to learn it!!

[ThatguyDave]

Lucky U. I'm pretty sure my counterbalance wasn't pinned the first time my machine was moved cause when I saw it in storage there was zero force holding the spindle down on the wooden block below. I did say something before the second move so now I've got a lifetime supply of door stops

Just curious, are you putting this auction machine pretty much right to work, or is it getting some kind of go through and cleaning? I'm also new to CNC and purchased pretty much the same CNC. I've been cleaning the machine for literally like the last three days and slowly disassembling it to access its condition. I'm still debating whether its wise to pull off the table and saddle to inspect all the way surfaces cause unless something turns out to be completely amiss, I'm not going to be able to do much about what I find anyhow.

Has anyone else gone so far as to almost completely disassemble a new to them used machine just for peace of mind or am I overdoing it?

[scadvice]

Yes Dave... I'm just finishing up on one I took me about 200hrs but mine had some special cleaning and rust issues.
Here are some things I would suggest.
Don't try and take the sheet metal off. Its really hard and not worth it unless you are needing to sand blast the paint off. Some parts will come off easy enough. But... not the main panels.
Before you do take the machine apart power it up and see how it runs.
Fix any problems before you take it apart that you would need to test run i.e. a servo motor or driver problem. Ones you can fix as you go are thrust bearings, also the tool changer bearings ect. But for most things its better to fix before taking apart. Then you know it all worked before you started.
Things to replace or check in most cases on well used machines are...
Belts
Drawbar bellview washer set
Tool changer bellview washer set
Lub lines and function
check electrical cables to the x axis for cracks or loose connections.
clean fans
working spindal motor fan
Clean tool changer rails
And so on....
You can turn on and move the machine axis with the tool changer taken off
but be sure to push the remaining assy all the way back.
Ask and if I know I'll tell you what I know ...if I don't know i'll tell you too.
Steve

[ThatguyDave]

Ha, I hadn't even considered removing the bodywork or repainting anything for that matter. This morning I pulled off the table, removed the X ball screw and am in the process of going through the lubricant lines. Once I get my ultrasonic cleaner back I'm planning on giving the lubricant metering ports a good cleaning in hydraulic fluid as someone recommended a while back.

Unfortunately it seems that in the six months that my machine sat after I bought it some areas of the ways got a bit corroded. Not enough that I think it will impair the performance or accuracy of the machine but enough to bother me a bit. I scraped off any corrosion I could by running a razor blade over the surface just to make sure that there wasn't anything hanging above the surface of the ways that could tear up the wayliner.

Oddly my machine which came factory with metric ball screws has two different ballscrews on the X and Y axis. The X axis is has hand engraved on it: MOD 12633
S/N 1466
906433 "x"

and the y: NSK W4007WF-9ZTS1
96F1-0080

Definately seems like one was replaced at some point of time.

Unfortunatly the machine still isn't under power so I have no way of knowing if there are any electrical problems to address. I'll certainly replace all the pullbar washers and the spindle belts which have clearly seen better days. Thanks for the heads up and best of luck with your rebuild.

[MBX5]

Not sure how far we are going to take cleaning up this machine right away... We have gone through some obvious stuff - replaced the spindle motor fan, cleaned the gunk out of there and replaced the filter. I fixed a broken coolant line fitting as well, just some basics... I scraped corrosion off the way panels, and luckily the liners were ok.

It needs a good cleaning for sure - will probably get that taken care of...lots of sticky gunk everywhere. We are not a production machine shop however. We build custom end of arm tooling for robot applications, and we have a lot of down time between jobs so there is plenty of time to tinker...

There is a pic of the unit here:
http://www.industrialrobotix.com/tek9.asp?pg=Facility

[scadvice]

I had rust very heavily built up from storage. There are two ways I've clean off corrosion and or rust. One will gray or darken the metal, and the other will not clean the heavy rust off. Further, heavier rust can leave pitting below the surface you just have to live with if it is on a bare metal surface such as the steel way cover box after cleaning. The hardest rust will take the rust removal pink gel you can buy at the auto parts store. The other, and best results I got for light to med. rust cleaning is with the orange citrus hand cleaner ( also at the auto part store, without ammonia) because it has borax hand powder in it. Add a little kerosene or WD-40 to it, but keep it a paste. I then used a copper dish pan scrubber and scrub. Use a piece of alum. milled with a 90 deg sharp edge so as not to scratch the metal to scrap off the heavy stuff. A putty knife and razor blade works, as you said but easy to scratch the metal with. Wire brush small and large help. I finished by washing the section done with soap and water wipe dry then finish with WD-40 scrubbing again with #000 or #0000 steel wool. Wiped dry (used a lot of paper towels!!) then a thin coat of way oil to finish.
I removed my way cover boxes and rebuilt them replaced the wipers, cleaned and textured them using an orbital sander with #40 grit. They look almost new.

Steve.

[DareBee]

Very thorough.
Good work Steve