MAG - Fadal Closing?????

[carbidecraters]

I heard from an industry insider last week (who should know), that Fadal sold its spare parts and inventory to Eagle Machine in Dallas, is that true? I was also told that I should not consider a used Fadal becasue there will soon be no parts for them.

I had been planning to buy a used Fadal 6030 or 8030 and this gives me great doubt about that decision.


What's the real story guys?

Quick sell me your Fadal for peanuts!!!!!!

[David Michael]

Being one of the original family members of Fadal. I get asked about "Fadal Closing" all the time. The fact is MAG shut down the Fadal production facility last year and the official plan was to make machines at the G&L factory. Under what name, only time will tell. Currently there's little activity in the new machine sales for all manufactures. What will the future be for the machine tool industry? Again time will only tell.

Historically, the availability of part is what ends the life of a machine.
I still work with many of the original suppliers and Fadal parts will be available for a long, long time!

David de Caussin

[Myrmidon]

Yeh they shut down Fadal, and now according to those of my buddies at G&L who still work there, are working on shutting the doors to Giddings and Lewis machine shop. Word is they are going to buy outsourced machined parts and just assemble them/slap on the G&L/Mag name.

[SBC Cycle]

Yeh they shut down Fadal, and now according to those of my buddies at G&L who still work there, are working on shutting the doors to Giddings and Lewis machine shop. Word is they are going to buy outsourced machined parts and just assemble them/slap on the G&L/Mag name.

In other words, they will be like a Haas?

Sorry couldn't resist. I have a Haas and I'm ok with it so no one jump me!

[Haas_Apps]

'Was just curious as to why you think that? I know that we do outsource sheet metal and may be a really small amout of other machined parts, but, for the most part most everything is made here in Oxnard at the Haas factory.

In other words, they will be like a Haas?

Sorry couldn't resist. I have a Haas and I'm ok with it so no one jump me!

[SBC Cycle]

'Was just curious as to why you think that? I know that we do outsource sheet metal and may be a really small amout of other machined parts, but, for the most part most everything is made here in Oxnard at the Haas factory.

I was flipping through a machinist magazine one day and stumbled upon a Korean made lathe that has a turret that is *identical* to my Haas lathe. It is possible that the import machined copied the Haas design (down to the smallest detail), but the poor quality of the Haas tool turret in comparison to the rest of the machine leads me to believe that it is an import. Quite frankly, if it's not an import, it's nothing I would brag about manufacturing.

My comment was largely made in jest. There are probably no more sourced parts on the Haas than any other large machine tool builder. However, everytime I brag about my "American Made Only" shop (3 Fadal mills, 1 Haas lathe, and 1 Cincinnati Milacron lathe) to other guys in the industry they are always quick to claim that the Haas is only "assembled" in the U.S. I have no way to verify or deny their claims.

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I would like to clarify that my Haas lathe has been fairly dependable and I like it. Maybe I will make a thread on the Haas sub forum with some questions I have about the Haas if you would be interested.

[Haas_Apps]

SBC,
I know that it was in jest. But as you know every joke has some basis in truth.
I too do not want to hijack this tread as I ran Fadal's for many years and hate what is happening to them.

If you ever want to call me please feel free

Wayne Reilly
Haas Automation
805-278-8560

I was flipping through a machinist magazine one day and stumbled upon a Korean made lathe that has a turret that is *identical* to my Haas lathe. It is possible that the import machined copied the Haas design (down to the smallest detail), but the poor quality of the Haas tool turret in comparison to the rest of the machine leads me to believe that it is an import. Quite frankly, if it's not an import, it's nothing I would brag about manufacturing.

My comment was largely made in jest. There are probably no more sourced parts on the Haas than any other large machine tool builder. However, everytime I brag about my "American Made Only" shop (3 Fadal mills, 1 Haas lathe, and 1 Cincinnati Milacron lathe) to other guys in the industry they are always quick to claim that the Haas is only "assembled" in the U.S. I have no way to verify or deny their claims.

I don't want to derail this thread any further but I would like to clarify that my Haas lathe has been fairly dependable and I like it. Maybe I will make a thread on the Haas sub forum with some questions I have about the Haas if you would be interested.

[Bwana Don]

I'm sad to see an "American Made" machining Icon go the way of Pontiac Motors. I really like my Fadal and hope parts are available for many years to come.

I have been talking to Mazak and Haas, and one of those will be our next machine. both are, to my knowledge made in the USA. Now if this damn economy would just pick up. It's really hard to justify a new machine when your business is shrinking. I need some new toys, a machine, upgraded software, something. I can't take this holding pattern anymore.

I've got a job and in Detroit these days that's a big deal. For that I'm thankful, but this economy sucks!

[RevEdo]

I sold Haas for both HFO Torrance and Machining Time Savers in Anaheim, CA. I can vouche for Haas fairly well.They are piles of junk, unless you baby them (take light cuts). They pretty much start breaking after 1 year.And it's not uncommon for them to have problems in the 1st year, unlike Mori's that go 15 years without a single service call.I had a customer in Cerritos and for the whole time I was with HFO Torrance, we had a service guy there at least once a week. Customer was spending AT LEAST 4g a month on service. Trust me, Trehern and Ellison love the cash cow that is Haas parts/service. As for where they are built, hands down almost EVERY component is made in house in Oxnard.The factory is amazing. When I got out of the industry on 04, they where just havin a rumored 20 million dollar Mori HMC cell with 2 story pallet stackers installed . All the machines they use are top quality Jap or Euro machines. Thing is, they do no grinding (other than cylindrical and a Reishaur). Meaning. machine component mating surface are ONLY milled and slapped together (shimmed when necessary). Thats right, no grinding and then hand scraping. Thats crap.HEll, most Taiwan stuff is built better now a days.They mill the freaking table ON THE MACHINE to get the geometry correct. You will NEVER see a ground table on a Haas, Ever. Don't even get me started about the tiny little 2 piece pillow blocks they mount the small ballscrews with, or the tiny nut-mount under the tables. That said, I've been at several builder factories since I started as a machinist in 79 ( including DMG) and the Oxnard facility is one of the best anywhere. You get what you get when you buy a Haas, cheap light duty but with the best service in the industry, hands down. The HFO's in SoCal are there same day or next day 99% of the time and with the right parts.

Again, ya get what ya get. Darn near 100% made in USA.
See the factory,they'll let anyone in even if you stop by un-announced. Pretty impressive.

[SBC Cycle]

We are just beginning the next chapter in our shop. Picked up a 2008 and a 2010 Haas VF3 in December and the service guy should be here next week to install them.

We initially bought 2 supposedly remanufactured Fadals after buying the last "new" Fadal our dealer had on their floor. They assured us they were rebuilt to factory specs and when they showed up (6 weeks late) there were still piles of shavings inside the machines, cover panels missing, beat up way covers, and "oopsies" in the table. They essentially put new skins on them, gave them a poor cleaning job and sold them to us as reman.

So we sent them back and made the decision to abandon the Fadals. We still have 4 of them and we will run them until they won't run anymore. Our oldest (1996) is still going strong but we do baby our machines.

I'm anxious to find out if any of the hype (good and bad) is true with Haas. Regardless (I know there are people who are going to shake their head at this) but I believe in Made in USA. Any future machines we buy will be Haas unless these things are complete pieces of crap. They're stacked with a lot of the goodies including probing, programmable coolant, macros, IPS, chip auger, etc. so if they aren't any good it's not for lack of features.

If it doesn't work out, we're going to find a REAL machine rebuilder and keep our Fadals in service. I'm just not ready to speak Taiwanese yet. No offense to the Chinese or the Japanese but frankly, they don't buy my products so I'm not buying theirs.

[carbidecraters]

Good for you I am glad your moving ahead and hopefully the Haas will work out better than the Fadals did.

[carbidecraters]

I will say this though if the box ways are repaired and the gibs or straps are tight and the backlash is minimal what else can you ask from a reman? Besides new paint.

[RevEdo]

I'm just not ready to speak Taiwanese yet. No offense to the Chinese they don't buy my products so I'm not buying theirs.

Tell that to Gene Haas (China is his biggest market), or GM, Ford Chrysler and on and on. The Japs and Koreans are way lower on the list of fair trade practitioner than ROC. Practically everything you consume and buy is predominantly made in ROC or Mainland. be prepared to spend about a grand a month per Haas on repairs.

Lets use your VF3 as an example.For 69,9 you get a side mount tool changer, pcool, remote jog wheel, coolant spray gun, macros and a host of other goodies. Their Package A and Package B are standard build items. Try to buy a machine without those packages on them and watch the salesman hem and haw. And at 69.9 the dealer is making 15%. I've done several Haas machines at only a 6% margine. Gotta bargain. Tell me, how Haas can make machines like that?? I already have. They cut corners and will get you on the back end with parts and service.

I'll tell you this straight up, I put on a Haas competitor hat and walk into a guys shop and he is gonna tell me how much he loves his Haas and how great their service is. I go out to my car and put my Haas hat on and walk right back into to that same effing shop and that same guy is gonna bmw about what piles of crap they are and how we just killing him on parts and service. I've witnessed this, not on the same day of course.

Bottom line is, you get what you pay for. It is really as simple as that.

[RevEdo]

Just to re-iterate, SBC.
Gene Haas won't even use his machines to make his machines. Their factory is loaded with almost 100% high end Jap machines.

[Chrliev]

The shop that I work in has a FADAL, its a 2001, 4525 with a Siemens 840d control. We have had some problems, mostly with that quirky Siemens controller but all in all its been a good machine.

I just got her going again with the help of a genuine Fadal service guy, he did a very good job, MAG/Fadal is still providing support even for the rare Siemens control. Most of their techs have 10+ years of experience and they have a wealth of inside knowledge.

Even their service techs don't know whats going to happen to them in the near future. What I am personally doing is maintaining contact numbers for a couple of their service people. I'm sure that eventually some will wind up as independent techs, and in this way I hope to get tech support for the foreseeable future...

[iess525]

We are just beginning the next chapter in our shop. Picked up a 2008 and a 2010 Haas VF3 in December and the service guy should be here next week to install them.

We initially bought 2 supposedly remanufactured Fadals after buying the last "new" Fadal our dealer had on their floor. They assured us they were rebuilt to factory specs and when they showed up (6 weeks late) there were still piles of shavings inside the machines, cover panels missing, beat up way covers, and "oopsies" in the table. They essentially put new skins on them, gave them a poor cleaning job and sold them to us as reman.

So we sent them back and made the decision to abandon the Fadals. We still have 4 of them and we will run them until they won't run anymore. Our oldest (1996) is still going strong but we do baby our machines.

I'm anxious to find out if any of the hype (good and bad) is true with Haas. Regardless (I know there are people who are going to shake their head at this) but I believe in Made in USA. Any future machines we buy will be Haas unless these things are complete pieces of crap. They're stacked with a lot of the goodies including probing, programmable coolant, macros, IPS, chip auger, etc. so if they aren't any good it's not for lack of features.

If it doesn't work out, we're going to find a REAL machine rebuilder and keep our Fadals in service. I'm just not ready to speak Taiwanese yet. No offense to the Chinese or the Japanese but frankly, they don't buy my products so I'm not buying theirs.

Sorry to hear that the remanufactured Fadals you got didn't work out. If I recall correctly, we did talk to you about a few rebuilt Fadals we had but I think the timing wasn't right or something.

I hope that your bad experience with the rebuilds that you received won't turn you off from companies out there who are legitimately rebuilding Fadals (like us). Next time you're looking for a Fadal rebuilder, feel free to give us a call to see what we can do for you.

-Shelvin
TheFadalParts.com
(818) 678-9456

[ASIGuy]

Thanks that's good to know. We have 4 VMCs so i am sure we will need the support. Whats got me bent is the Maintenance company doubled the part price in a day... Thursday the CRT monitor = $500... today it = $1000 I guess i will have a fun talk with them Monday to at least get an explanation.

Thanks for the clarification.

Hennessy

Hennessy

You are indeed being over charged, but only because many parts are way, way cheaper than Mag Fadal sells them for. We sell these monitors all day long for $475 and many other parts are signifiantly cheaper on our site. Neal is correct. They are indeed planning to support Fadal machines until at least their company sells. It is up for sale, last I heard, and nobody is able to meet their offering yet. Also, there are about 5 sources all over the US to buy parts for your Fadal, ours being the largest and most complete site, so as Neil said, "Rest Easy" your machines will be supported for years to come. Follow this link and see what the price is for a monitor - ELE-0189A is the correct part number.

Fadal Parts Online

We are also in the middle of developing many various videos for common troubleshooting and parts installation procedures available for download soon, so the days of having to hire a tech for each and every little issue will soon be over, but indeed you will need someone with experience to handle some of the tougher troubleshooting, and more delicate parts installations where you might possibly void a warranty if installed incorrectly. We are not suggesting you will never need a tech again with the support we can offer you over the phone and with the videos we will soon release, but at least when you call someone in, you will really need one.

Shop around before you cut a PO for your next replacement part. I think you will be plesantly suprised what the competition has done with the replacement parts pricing!

Cheers!

Brian D.
FadalCNC

[iess525]

Brian,

The post you replied to is almost 2 years old.

-Shelvin
TheFadalParts.com
(818) 678-9456

[ASIGuy]

Well, there may be enough time for you fadal cnc owners to get out of a bad situation, but I doubt it... If you cannot see that the brand is not going to last, then nothing I or anyone else says to you will convince you either. There is no point in me going into detail on this subject, because I have said it in so many ways already...

2 million people may still be driving ford pintos, even though the brand is a death trap in the event of a rear end accident in excess of 30 miles per hour. Rear end accident, not your fault, but you're dead. Reason, you chose to drive a faulty brand.

Don't be a victim of your own ill advised choice.

Scott Bob,

While I think I understand the purpose of your analogy and is well taken, let's be clear that Fadal was never a Pinto in the CNC Machine Tool business. The Decaussins were brilliant and made an exceptional machine that has stood the test of time. Machines built in the 80's still make great parts today and are fully supported. You cannot say that about very many brands, and the support for Fadal machines is better than it ever has been, and heads above the support you get on any other machine, hands down.

How could I say such a thing? "Haas is Johnny on the spot with a service guy and parts in the truck?" Here's the very important difference: Other that Fadal brand machines, no other CNC manufacturer in the world has options to buy parts from competitive sources other than the OEM, with Fanuc being the exception to this.

You have sources from the OEM and their distributor network, but if you don't like your local dealer, you can buy absolutely everything under the sun, very competitively from FadalCNC and a small sampling of items from others. Name any other brand with these options! The end user is the winner. Just check out the number of parts and pricing available compared to other and the OEM.

Fadal Parts Online

So the long and short of it is Fadal is a great American made machine and tens of thousands are still making parts each and every day. Support is not in short supply regardless of Mag's commitment to support the machine. We buy about 99% of the parts we sell from other sources, so we are not depentant, nor are Fadal owners dependant on future decisions from Mag to manufacture or support the Fadal brand of machines.

....and on a side note, because of this "going out of business" hysteria, the price for Fadal machines has dropped incredibly which makes adding to your spindle inventory, or starting a new business with a Fadal very inexpensive these days. So think about it: Just because the manufacturer goes out of business, does not make the machines bad, useless or undesirable thanks to the free marketplace at work. We cannot say that about other brands!!

Cheers.

Brian D.
FadalCNC

[SBC Cycle]

I will say this though if the box ways are repaired and the gibs or straps are tight and the backlash is minimal what else can you ask from a reman? Besides new paint.

Absolutely true. We went around a bit with the dealer on the difference between remanufactured and used. All I can say is, I could have bought used for a lot less if I didn't care about dealing with the unknown. I needed these to hit the floor, add power, air, and start making parts. We would have bought new if they were available but obviously there aren't any to be had.

I was forced to conclude that what we got was 2 used machines wrapped in new skins. It was a bummer. I replaced them with 2 Haas machines (one still under warranty), "loaded" with 6 Double Kurt vises for the same money. Who knows, maybe it will turn out to be a huge mistake. Only time will tell. I will certainly share my experiences whether good or bad. I don't have a dog in the hunt as they say.