would you recommend a Fadal

[camtd]

With prices down I have come across a 1994 40X20 Fadal 10,000 rpm spindle High torque. There has been a report supplied stating the machine is in good running condition.

I will be using the machine for job shop work upgrading from a Prototrak bedmill.

My question goes out to owners and operators. Would you recommend purchasing a machine such as this?

[dertsap]

my experience with fadals has been poor , very poor , i absolutely hate them and even more so i hate the local service
you would be better off buying a hass , the price is roughly the same but the quality is far greater in my opinion

[carbidecraters]

Originally Posted by camtd With prices down I have come across a 1994 40X20 Fadal 10,000 rpm spindle High torque. There has been a report supplied stating the machine is in good running condition. I will be using the machine for job shop work upgrading from a Prototrak bedmill. My question goes out to owners and operators. Would you recommend purchasing a machine such as this?

That would be a SMOKING upgrade! Dont listen to the naysayers they are usually mold makers who want extreme speed

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by carbidecraters ! Dont listen to the naysayers they are usually mold makers who want extreme speed

3 machines and 4 blown spindles , amongst many other issues , we just wanted a reliable light production machine to lighten the load on the higher end production machines
there are a number of people who have had great success with fadals but many have had problems ,spindles being the biggest issue , it appears to be a crap shoot

[little bubba]

CamTD, there are many things a Fadal is and there are many things it isn't. It is not the fastest, it is not the most rigid, and it is not the most accurate, it is not a high end machine. What it is is a very good value machine. The toolchanges will put you to sleep, the rapids aren't great, but speedy compared to the tool changes. The accuracy at high speeds is not fantastic. They are not the most rigid machines, but when maintained properly can easily use all the horses they have.

Now, you're looking at upgrading from a bedmill, and job shopping. I don't think you can wrong. In the past 13 months I've brought in a '93 and a '94 4020. Why?

1) I'm job shopping and the tool changes aren't killing me, rapids aren't either, most of the difficulty is in the brain work before hand, and during running the job.

2) Bang for the buck, you can't beat it. Big travel size, tool changer, really nice simple controller, cheap parts.

3) Easy as hell to fix. If you are mechanically inclined, you can trouble shoot and fix a Fadal. Yes they break, a '94 is old, though they are durable. Aftermarket suppliers, who will give your free tech support, and then sell you parts, sometimes upgraded cheaper than the factory.

3A) easy to maintain and tweak in to good specs. Keep up on the Bellevilles and drawbar floater ($20 and $50 for the upgraded springs) and you will have fantastic tool retention. I suggest replacing these on any machine that comes your way and once at least every 18 months. Checking out all the slop in the table is easy too, it may take a while to get it all in, but its worth it. Backlash settings, take you time and do it right, and you can take a 15 year old machine and come out with a superstar. I've got both machines I have running .0002 position and, surprising to me, nice interpolated bores, with no witness marks on the quadrants, I won't say I'm holding .0002 on the bores, but pretty decent, I usually pull out the boring heads on the tight stuff.

I've done some nasty tight tolerance stuff on these old pigs, and they have been very very good to me. I've worked with some nice high end jap machines, and I do miss them, but when its coming out of my pocket, for what I'm doing, I don't want to pay for them, and on the rare occasion they break, I really really don't want to pay for that(a 12k spindle at more than I bought a whole 4020 for, no!, or at least not yet)

Originally Posted by dertsap my experience with fadals has been poor , very poor , i absolutely hate them and even more so i hate the local service you would be better off buying a hass , the price is roughly the same but the quality is far greater in my opinion

Dertsap, if you need a tech for a Fadal, you're doing something wrong, and we're talking 15 year old machines. I wouldn't touch a newer Fadal with a 10 foot pole and just because of the name, the Fadal will be cheaper than the Haas, especially at 15 years old.

CamTD for reference on your price, I got into the '93 a year ago, 28"Z and TSC for 12.9k, she had some slop, needed some thrust bearings, bellevilles and a $500 drawbar. Belts were a bit beat and a few other little things, shes a top notch accurate machine now for less than a $1000 dumped into her. The TSC still isn't fixed, but haven't needed it yet(BTW she paid for herself 10X plus over in less than a year). The '94, again 28"Z(which I can't say enough good things about), 4th axis, 24k, this machine came in in top notch condition, though it did blow a power supply, which is a PC supply which cost nothing since I had box of them upstairs. The 24k was probably a bit high with how things are dropping, but... I got a screaming hot deal on shipping, considering it came out of Canada, and it paid for itself in 40 days. It also paid a bit back in the fact that I now had 2 virtually identical machines and did some board swapping on the '93, which turned out to be nothing more than dirty connections.

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by little bubba Dertsap, if you need a tech for a Fadal, you're doing something wrong, and we're talking 15 year old machines. I wouldn't touch a newer Fadal with a 10 foot pole and just because of the name, the Fadal will be cheaper than the Haas, especially at 15 years old. .

it was about 15 yrs ago well about 12
chaging our own spindles wasnt an option because the machines were only a few months old , warrantee work
besides we had no time to fix machines we were far too busy trying to keep up to the work load

[DareBee]

My experience with my 94 40x20x28 10K have been fairly positive as well. I do not regret buying the machine.
For a job shop rigid tapping is pretty well a must IMO (you didnt mention it) and the fourth axis adds a lot of capability.

Like LB mentioned, if you need to run 100 parts (with a 10min spindle time) and want to do 10 tool changes/part - the chip to chip time will make you freak (especially if your tools arent consecutive in the ATC). Probably about 2 min lost in TCs.

I also have done pretty accurate work in the beast but it takes some trial and error to figure the best way to sneak up to it.

[extremecase_8]

We have three Fadals in our shop and I cannot complain one bit. We are a job shop so speed was not our biggest focus and I really can’t dog the accuracy of our mills. We had them ball bar tested just the other day and they were within .00027, and they have never been adjusted. We have had a few problems with our machines but when you consider what the machine costs you are still way ahead. I also have to say that I agree with “little bubba”, these machines are extremely easy to work on and parts are very easy to get online.