104/D Updates

[800MXZ]

Well all, as many of you know, the 104/D Fadal had a rocky start, but due to software updates, things are looking very good. We have done several projects and tests with the newest software updates, and the 104/D is performing very well. Tests on the Mercedes mold test pieces nets good results all the way up to 500ipm. I know it was off to a rocky start, but expect allot of performance out of the 104s, they just were marketed too early.

[nervis1]

So tell me a little about that controller, I've read on Fadals site, but how do you get programs into it. I know RS232 is there, what are the options for drives, like USB, disk etc?

How much program memory can you get, and how much comes stock?

Does it have graphic prove out?

Does it run windows or some other GUI?

Lastly...if you get a sec post up some pics of your rig, I'd love to see it.

[surface]

woo-hoo! Since June, my brand new machine has been a thorn in my side. Not a day goes by without some type of problem. Just this morning, I was contemplating a new control. If the latest rev works, it will be a happy day.

[Neal]

Nervis 1--
The Standard program storage memory is 4 gig-a-byte (not megabyte).
There is graphics and some improvements on it are due.
The operating system is Windows 2000 Pro. and has an 80 gigabyte harddrive.
The RS-232, being old/slow technology is only available as an option. As standard, there are two USB ports on the control panel for Pen Disk devices. There is a 3.5 floppy drive and an ether net connection is built in.

Neal

[800MXZ]

Surface - What exact issues are there? I would be more than willing to help as much as I can. There are more 104Ds in our territory then there are in the rest of the country. We went to problems with most of them to problems only with 1 or 2 of them now. What revision level are you at? What application (molds, dies, etc...)

[surface]

800mxz, I'm running 01.03.07 which I think is a fairly new version. One new problem developed after this latest was installed. The spindle often has problems orientating during tool-change. The 88HS control had a gain setting to deal with this. I don’t see one with the 104d.
Other problems include issues with G2 & G3 moves. When I was using I & J, the machine would sometimes run a full arc, even though it was programmed as an arc segment. I switched to using “R” to define the arcs, breaking the arc in quadrants. It has gotten better, but is still undependable. Often I get an error, “error occurred while trying to calculate the center using radius designation”. Sometimes it will give this error in the second part, but not the first.
One of my favorite errors is when the machine comes to a grinding halt in the middle of a cut. “HMI encountered a critical error”. This is sometimes followed by axis drift, which of course, because the tool is down, snaps the tool in half, gouges the part and damages the entire setup. It has done this even drilling a simple hole.
I have problems with feed rates, even using just G1 moves. This problem seems to get worse and worse when moving in three axis simultaneously, but will do this with just two axis moves. The actual feed rate is often 1/4 of the programmed feed rate. This is sometimes accompanied by a dwell between moves, kinda like a feed-ramps was left on.
I have plenty more problems, but I would be just happy at this stage to be able to run any part with some confidence. As it is, I get a knot in my stomach when I have an expensive piece of material in the machine and I cannot leave the machine with an operator. The errors are too numerous and the recovery is too difficult to leave an inexperienced person. I’ll be happy when things get better.
If you have any sugestions as to the cause of some of these problems, it would be so much apreciated. The local Fadal rep is as baffled as I am.

[800MXZ]

We have discovered that definition in posting on some CAD/CAM software certain settings, such as accuracy can have drastic effects. Broken geometry is the next. I am not saying this is your case, but we have found that little changes in software can have adverse effects. These are things we have found on our level, not by Fadal at the factory.

There are actually 9 revisions thus far. 8 should take care of the I and J issues, 9 with that of canned cycles.

Talk to your dealer, and tell him you have heard of "new" revisions.

[surface]

800mxz, I have a feeling that you are correct that some of my problems are CAD/CAM related, yet I don’t know how to make things any more accurate. I tightened Mastercam's settings, yet problems persist. The only way I could get my programs to run "tighter" is to switch to the metric system. As you know, the resolution of English units is .0001, where as with the metric system the resolution is .001mm or .00004 inches. I am resisting even trying that because my brain does not comprehend metric distances.
One idea I had is, in SETP there is a field titled "circle corr". It is current value is set at .00001. There is no documentation what this value does in the 104d user manual and I have not yet tried playing with a new value. Do you have any idea?

[800MXZ]

That is what I think the concerns are, that things may be too tight as far as the settings go. That all depends on how and what you are programing (2D, surfaces, nurbs, etc....) many cad systems will output code that has "breaks" in the geometry due to rounding errors. The 88HS and 32MP can digest such code, as the resoultion of those controls is not as tight as of that of the 104. There is basically no room for error, using the new digital drives. We discovered this uing our in-house cad system (workNC) and had similar issues.

I am not saying it is a fix to everything, but sometimes if you take a step back, look at it from another angle, things will be seen different. I am not implicated closed-mindedness, just that we found ourselves doing the same exact thing.

[Neal]

The current version is 01.03.08.01 - As far as types of applications, they are varied from mold to profiling to simple drilling arrays to medical equipment and aircraft parts.

Neal

[XYZ machine]

I have a simple 3d mold shape that I threw in a alum block what has me baffled is the approx .100 straight wall below the top of the part that runs around the inside perimeter. The part has a 1/2 radius that starts at the top and runs over to the adjacent side. It looks like it starts -.100 down and then rolls the radius but the depth after cutting is -.500 not -.600. We used Gibbs V7.0 and the post that came in the Gibbs SPF on the control. I have looked at the solid image until my mouse is worn out I give up it seems like it maybe a control issue. I have used G8 G8.1 VLF on and off. I dont know any help would be appreciated .

XYZ

[surface]

Although this control still has a few bugs, that doesn't sound like a control issue. I would double check the program and setup.