4th or 5th axis on Fadal VMC40 idea.

[RDTS]

I saw a video on YouTube

YouTube - New CNC Trunnion Table can be 4th or 5th Axis made by HTS

YouTube - New CNC Trunnion Table can be 4th or 5th Axis made by HTS

and was wondering if a 1985 Fadal VMC40 can be set up like this utilizing Tormach's Rotary Table kit (http://www.tormach.com/Product_RotaryProducts.html). Can Fadals controler be changed to use Mach3? I have Alibre Pro CAD and Alibre CAM (Visual). This would make the purchase of a old Fadal machine a slick idea. Any thoughts are appreciated. I have been using a manual Lathe and mill for gunsmithing and parts machining since 1981 and want to get into CNC. I was primarilly thinking of the Tormach PCNC1100 machine since a lot of users have come up with ideas for it but I have the opportunity to pick up a low hour Fadal VMC40 (cnc88 contoller) with a 21 tool changer and lots of tooling for 10K. But I want at least a 4th axis and am concerned with the cost of using Fadals gear to do it.

[carbidecraters]

I dont think you could get mach 3 working on a Fadal and say it works better than the 88. Isnt the -3 and lower still 5 axis capable? That table the guy built looks like a very light duty non full 5 axis table. This means the table will move into position but not move while your cutting so you have a 5 axis indexer not full 5 axis machine. To add another axis (not index) to a machine it must be capable of moving while your cutting. The Fadal 5th axis tables are expensive but your machine should be able to be used with one. Be aware that you may not have any more than 20"s from spindle to table travel so you are limited there.

BTW a VMC40 (1988) for 10K isnt a fantastic bargain. You can get much more machine for around the same dollar.

[RDTS]

Thanks for the info.
I talked to the guys at FadalCNC and they said to convert a FADAL to 4th axis was about $8K total with the board. I found a 94 with 4th axis indexer for 17.5K and a 97 (10K hours) true 4th/5th axis for 47K, both are VMC40's. Looks like the Tormach may get the nod here. The VMC40 for 10K had 3K of tooling, still not a good price? What would be a good machine for under 20K? We will make parts but small runs of 50-100 occasionally. Thanks again.

Here is a pic of the VMC40 with the TR-65 4/5 axis.

[carbidecraters]

VMC 40 and VMC 4020 are two different machines...LOL The Fadal VMC machines are not toy cnc's like the other one mentioned they are tough and will hold accuracy. If your a hobbyist and dont need to make production runs or prototypes that need to maintain accuracy then the hobbyist machine is what you want not the serious Fadal. IF you have never experienced the difference between a boxed way fadal and a linear way 2500lb hobbyist cnc you should wait and dont make any snap decisions. Look around ask around and visit some shops before you spend any money where it shouldnt be spended. I am biased though I never liked any machine with less than a #40 taper and at least 10hp...believe me you will eat it up when your hogging.

[scadvice]

...is showing a VMC 4020. That means a 40" x 20" work area. The VMC 40, a good machine ( at least the 89' I have is) has a 22" x 16" work area. You need to consider if the VMC40 will work with the 5 axis. The VMC40 was not designed to. Using any added axis may need alot of work and cost, to make them work.
Also...do not forget you have to power these on 3 phase power. The VMC 10,15, and 20's have re placement transformers for running 208-220 single phase but at a about a 30% torque loss. The VMC 40 and VMC 4020...I'm not sure about changing transformers.
Steve.

[RDTS]

Your right. I just called them and they thought is was 40x20 but it is the VMC40 30x16 small table. Its a spotless machine with laughable low hours. They said it sometimes sat for 10 years without being used. They bought it new in 85. They have 2 tap drivers, Tool holders for the 21 station with every sizes for every end mill up to 1". They want 10K but I'm thinking maybe 5-7 in todays market. Any thoughts? From what I've read a Fadal is a good machine. This has a RS32 port and reads both fadal and Funac formats. So I'm thinking maybe it would be nice as a 3 axis machine or put a manual index plate for the 4th axis index machining.

Since its a VMC40 what are the cost involved in changing to single phase. We have no 3 phase here and would have to pick up a phase converter. I'm told the machine has a 7.5 or 10 Hp motor.

[carbidecraters]

A 1985 VMC 40...maybe 5K if they are lucky. I would pass on that machine...pass like John elway.

[scadvice]

...is a 15 hp with mist lube spindle. I'm not sure about the 83"s. Ask then for or look at the ser# I think the first two numbers are the year. Inside the cabinet for the drivers ( on mine its on the left side as you face the machine) is where the info on the machine options generaly are. The spindle inverter( back side top cabinet) you should be able to see what the HP is.
FADAL use to say never use a phase generator, but I think there are some people on these forums that do. I never have used one. I bought a 220 single phase transformer ( I think its number is 814 or 815, something like that, I'm not where I can look it up). I never used it, moved to a new building. I think I paid 600 bucks for it and it is for sale.
10k is a slightly high fair asking price in a moving market, if it is really in the condition you say. But I would consider your market area . I suggest saying you can't come up with that much, your only risk is they say no and keep it or sell it to someone else. They most likely will ask you what you can afford, so have a number ready.
BTW-Rigging to move one is around $800 to $1200.
Check ebay for what they are going for and knock about 20% off, that is most likely the selling price. Cut 40 to 50% off for the wholesale value.
BTW the 16 x 30 is the table size and the travel is 16 x 22.
I know very little about 83's other then what I've said. The setup manual (if they have it) will give you the specs.
Consider your abilities to fix things too unless you can afford to spend 600 to 1000 bucks to have someone comeout to fix it when you have problems.
Steve.

[RDTS]

Hi Scadvice

Do you still have that transformer? I think I found a machine. Its a 95 VMC15XT in pretty good shape with rigid tapping and a 4th (VH5C) axis. I was thinking about a phase converter as we don't have 3 phase here. Any thoughts on this machine? I keep hearing linear ways are crap but the machine looks well taken care of. Can't check it as its on a pallet now but was told the FADAL guys that took it in trade checked it out, plus I will have the former owners number tommorow to call. Oh yeah...what is DMC? is that a way to hook my computer CAM to the machine?

[Edster]

What do they want for the machine? It looks like a nice clean machine. the linear way machines aren't as rigid as the box way machines but there isn't any perodic maintanence or turcite to replace. I've got a 94 vmc15 with linear ways and it's still running good. It's not good for hogging steel but it still can take a halfway decent cut.

[RDTS]

I thought there was some turcite on the ways? So if the bearings are good the accuracy would be good? The most steel we would do would be 5" square by 2" high material, that being the case would a machine in good shape hold the "Axis Positioning Accuracy" of .0002 that the Fadal spec sheet specifies? Sorry for all the questions but this is a large investment for us. The machine is $15500 which includes the freight and being positioned in our VERY SMALL Shop. We will be edging around this machine. How much clearance do I need around the rear and sides, since you have one. We still need to set up for single phase and PU Tooling (Collets and Vise). We starting considering the Tormach (Not enough Bed) then the Supra (CNC Masters) and both machines set up right would have 12K to 13K in them by the time you added a 4th axis. And they would still be stepper motors and no Tool Changer. I am looking for a way to utilize a probe like this one http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...ic,5004.0.html for tool set up in the Fadal or even something that we can use (probe/digitizer)to reverse engineer parts we had done in the past manualy. Here are some parts we plan to do that we normally sent out to a local cnc shop. I realize the last part is very work intensive, that,s the reason for the 4th. The curved part is sheetmetal inserted and welded in.
Thanks in advance for any help, I'm sure the info will benefit others on this forum
Ralph

[scadvice]

Ralph,
I PM'd you... call me after 2:45 pm Pacific time and I can spend some time talking to you about your questions, ect...
Steve