fadal or haas

[ssrmr2]

Jeff,
I PM'd you.

steve

[ltmquik]

Steve,
I replied to your PM.
Jeff Lange

[Paul_S]

Originally Posted by ltmquik I have a 2001 REMANUFACTURED FADAL VMC 3016 that needs to leave to make room for a new HAAS. This is a basic machine. Umbrella type tool changer. 10K air/oil spindle. 4th axis wired. Let me know if you are interested in this machine.

Does that mean it has a 4th controller card? (Not just the X, Y And Z cards.) What is the memory RAM size? And which OS is in it?

Currently the company where I work is scouting for 3 Fadals with 10K spindles. I don't know the status of this search.

[Dennis H]

We have 3 fadals 2 3016's 95 & 98,& a 1990 6030.They are good if you need to do a lot of hogging off of material and have large tolerances (+-.005).We have had a lot of problems with the electronics.They come from the factory with the transformer mounted directly below the spindle inverter.Transformers generate a lot of heat & inverters are heat sensitive,so you have to remount the transformer in a seprate cabinet.The cabinets on are 90 have a chiller the cabinets on the 95 & 98 don't.There is no air filtration for the cabinets,so if you dry machine like we do you need to filter the air into the cabinet.We learned this the hard way with many shorted boards.The machine does not monitor the spindle cooling system if the pump breaks and you don't notice it you will ruin the spindle.
As for service we are in New Jersey you would be better off having monkeys fix it over the local fadal techs.Here is just 1 example of many of their "fixes".Tech chimp A comes out to replace a bearing on the x axis he reinstalls the ball screw wrong.We end up ruining the turksite on the bottom of the table.The guy who said the ballscrew was installed wrong was their top tech guy.We think they should pay to fix the table,they say their top tech guy is not qualified to make that determination and they won't pay.After a lot of angry phone calls to California fadal's remedy is we can buy parts directly from them.We ended up fixing the table ourselves and use an independent repair guy.
Our next milling machine will not be a fadal.

[scadvice]

Originally Posted by ssrmr2 steve, i see that you are rebuilding a '97 Fadal. what are you replacing on it? which model is it? I have seen a couple of fadals around but still a bit out of the price range 30K+. so far i am leaning towards haas, so far. Plus haas has the renishaw probing system. I have seen some topics about probing systems on fadals but... keep the discussion going.

...I have been moving the shop and then was out of town. When I bought the machine it was fully functional and I paid 13K for it. But because of divorce it sat in storage at my home for two years and accumulated some rust and also some spousal abuse (No need to tell more of that story!)
It is a '96 VMC15XT (I punched the wrong key earlier) with a 4th axis and a high speed processor. Rust damage was minor accept for one of the liner ways on the X axis as a small rust pit. In a conversation with a "Star" linear way rep. and some others it is felt that it may not effect the machines performance based on the fact that you cannot hear it when the cage travels across it and it is so small. But, it bears watching. Replacement is around $1500 from Fadal but I believe around half that from the manufacturer.
I'm cleaning all the rust off and painting the inside. Because the inside paint very coolant stained I've had to strip all the way to bare metal. I have to use a metal etch primer and most likely an epoxy paint. Fadal gave me the color number but it was easy to have matched at a local good commercial paint store.
The biggest problem that I finally gave up on was removing all the sheet metal. It is really just about an impossible thing to do without damaging the out side paint. Plus removing the pendant. I have removed all the smaller sheet metal parts sand blasted them bare and they are primed and ready for paint.
I've pulled the tool changer apart, cleaned, and reassemble it. Pulled the fan below the transformer and cut the opening out and put in a dual fan system. I may consider moving the dynamic brake heater above the spindle drive considering what Dennis has said, but that is new as a problem to me. It seems that if there is a heat problem it is coming mostly from the heater because they cut openings below the heater and use the single fan at the bottom of that electrical box to pull the heat away. Simpler to move the heater and mount it to its own base with a fan away from the openings and put a simple filer on the openings.
Fadal use to have a added on probe package. I do not know what they have or is available from other sources.
As to where to buy a Haas or a Fadal, I can't tell you. I would base my decision on want I said before how much you can afford to spend. The machines are good and bad in both and if you have to rely on a service tech for repairs that is everything.
Steve

[toddcheck]

ssrmr2,

9 months ago I was in the same boat as you. After much research (and several sleepless nights) I picked a '97 Fadal 3016 over late 90's Haas machines. Ours has 7,500 rpm spindle, ridgid tap, servo controlled coolant and expanded memory. We also run OneCNC. It runs both production jobs and die steels for our tool room and has yet to let us down. Remember, the most important thing when buying used CNC equipment is to buy on condition first.

Hope this helps...

[milldoe]

very easy choice HAAS

[Gmaan]

If you are looking for good tech support Hass is the only way to go! I worked on them for years cut only steel, they are great machines. Replacement parts are reasonable on price, and yo can do most of your own work. Easy to use, more standard industry format on the control side, and generally a good machine. Pre 97 never mind I used Hass serial number 1087 (87th machine haas sold) for years. 7.5 hp but it just kept chugging along. I did most of the repairs myself, encoders, CRT drive board replacements.
Haas has a real nice mini mill for cheep! 25K brand new. I made thousands of golf putter face inserts on it.

I would go with haas, over a Fadal any day.