06 4020 with Fanuc 18i-MB5

[btomlinson]

Hi everyone..

I'm preparing to purchase a 06 4020 loaded with the 18i-MB5 control. The machine also has the VH-165 rotary. I sold six fadals last year and I'm getting back into the business. I have always had good service from my Fadals with the 88HS

I'm new to the Fanuc control. I'm gathering that this is the "Cadillac" of controls and a quantum leap from the 88HS? I would like to eventually add a 5 axis TR-165. Can this be done easily in the field ?

The rock bottom price is 85k.They were asking 105k.. The machine has the chip conveyor with washdown, high torque, coolant through, rigid tap and VH-165 rotary.The machine is a lease repo with 700hours, so basically new condition. any opinions on this price ?

The machine will be used for medical and aerospace work

Thanks, any opinions will be appreciated

[cnckid]

I purchased a Bridgeport/Hardinge XP3 about 6 months ago with the 18i-MB control. It is a great control with the AI-NANO processor. I use it for complex 3D machining and it is amazing at how fast it can read and process massive amounts of data. To activate the AI-NANO processor function you simply add the line G05.1Q1Rx at the beginning of the program, where x is a number from 1-10 that indicates how closely you want the control to match the shape of the part you are machining. I use 5 as the setting and all of the parts I make look great. A setting of 1 will speed the machine feed up closer to the programed rate and 10 will cause it to slow down to more closely match the part shape. It looks well ahead in the program and determines how much it must slow down to accurately cut the part to shape. On my models in aluminum, I run 12,000 rpm, .125 ballnose endmill, and I program a feedrate of 110 ipm and it will hit that on the smoother, flat areas, but will slow down to as much as 40ipm in the tight areas. All in all, it is a great control, but hopefully you are programming with software, as it is not a friendly control for MDI programming. It has no conversational mode. Hope this helps.
Mike

[woodbutcher]

As a machine builder I can tell you the Fanuc control is the best. However, I do know that any options you want are about 1/2 price at time of purchase over getting the fanuc guys to come into the field and add options to the control.

[Scott_bob]

AINano is worth the price for sure...
Without this option HSM is not possible. If all you do is drilling, you don't need it, but who doesn't do milling right? I have not used HPCC but I'll bet that option is just that much better than AI. One year ago, AI was 5k, HPCC was 10k. This may seem costly, but remember a Fanuc without these options is like runing an engine in your car on half it's cylinders...
There are controls that don't require puchasing high performance options, but not Fanuc. Fanuc say's you gotta pay if you want to play. No surprise here though, at least Fanuc is consistant. Same is true for all the car makers out there, I am not complaining, I like the options... They are worth the money.


BTW, you should turn off AI when drilling because X, Y & Z motion are slowed a bit if you leave it on, and there is usually no point in slowing down a machine when moving to X & Y points for drilling holes. (unless of course you're trying to hold really tight positional tolerances).

Sincerely,

[btomlinson]

Are there different versions of this control, or are they available with certain versions turned off ? On the spec sheet for this machine I see some of these options:

AI- contour control
Bell acc/dec in rapid
Bell shaped acc/dec after interpolation
Bell shaped acc/dec before interpolation

What is HPCC and how do I know if its on this control..?

[cdlenterprises]

I think you're going to find that the fanuc is a great control (they've been industry standard for several years) but they aren't as user friendly as the old 88HS. They are really designed for the guy with the seat of CAM and aren't really all that great for manual programming at the machine. For one, they don't have all of the L94xx subroutines. But that's evolution I guess. I wouldn't be afraid of the machine or the control. Just be prepared for a learning curve with the control. As far as the price.... that seems a little high for a used machine but that's just my two cents.

[btomlinson]

Thanks for the input.. Im going to dig a little on this machine. It also has the side mount tool changer. I Was told the new sale price was around 130k..

[cnckid]

Originally Posted by Scott_bob AINano is worth the price for sure... Without this option HSM is not possible. If all you do is drilling, you don't need it, but who doesn't do milling right? I have not used HPCC but I'll bet that option is just that much better than AI. One year ago, AI was 5k, HPCC was 10k. This may seem costly, but remember a Fanuc without these options is like runing an engine in your car on half it's cylinders... There are controls that don't require puchasing high performance options, but not Fanuc. Fanuc say's you gotta pay if you want to play. No surprise here though, at least Fanuc is consistant. Same is true for all the car makers out there, I am not complaining, I like the options... They are worth the money. BTW, you should turn off AI when drilling because X, Y & Z motion are slowed a bit if you leave it on, and there is usually no point in slowing down a machine when moving to X & Y points for drilling holes. (unless of course you're trying to hold really tight positional tolerances). Sincerely,

Thanks for the tip to turn off the AINano functiion during drilling. I did not realize it slowed the machine down until I went back and watched it, both on and off. I also would like to know what is HPCC? My machine cost me 80k total delivered, with 12k spindle, through the spindle coolant, and 30 tool swing arm toolchanger. It was the demo model at the tool sales company, and had 45 hours run time on it.

[Omega]

My advise is to design a test cut that your Machine Tool suppliers would run for you. This is the only way you can make sure you get what you expect.

Also check out:
http://www.creat.com/

If SME (Society of Manufacturing Engineers) has any advise on a builder / partner (training & support) it would be to consider these guys...

Sincerely,

[Scott_bob]

AINano:
If this is activated with a high degree of accuracy, then your feed rate should be increased. This is the point of this feature... If activated and no increase to feed is made, then your cycle time will be longer and of course geometry will be more accurate. Personally, this idea of using a variable to set machine accuracy performance is still a bit frustrating. This is the way it is with Fanuc and some other controls, even Fadal with it's Advanced Feed Forward option (point to point motion only), or even the G8 G9 setting.

I mean why can't a CNC machine just be accurate in it's behavior, not some compromise of accuracy, or speed. As a programmer/machinist do you program a feature with anything besides accuracy in mind? I don't.

If I want to go fast, I want to go fast accurately, period!

What about you?

BTW check out:
http://www.creat.com/

[cdlenterprises]

Originally Posted by btomlinson Thanks for the input.. Im going to dig a little on this machine. It also has the side mount tool changer. I Was told the new sale price was around 130k..

I'd go to Haas' website and do a quick quote on a similar machine. At least this will give a ballpark # to determine whether the salesman is yanking your chain or not. Even if you're not considering a Haas believe me, if the Fadal guy knows you're even thinking about one, he'll do wonders with the numbers. Let us know how you make out...

[DareBee]

Bear in mind, with Haas you will be getting a linear bearing machine compared to a solid-way machine with the Fadal.