Upgrade or Replace?

[FoamGuy]

I've been watching this forum for awhile, and am grateful for all the information and hard-won wisdom contributed to it.

My job shop has 5 Fadal machines, ranging from 1988 to 1999 vintage, mostly 4020s with one 6030 VMC. We're having considerable problems with program-load times and memory-capacity issues, since our jobs have become more numerous and complex.

We feel we may be at a cross-roads as regards keeping these machines, or investing in upgrades to controller hardware to improve program-loading and machine capability. DNC could be an option for us, if reliable and easy to implement. These considerations would be made aside from assessments of the condition of the actual hardware.

If you were in my shoes, would you purchase Rubicon controller upgrades, invest in some Fadal stuff, or replace the machines with newer technology (Haas?)?

[alloyspec]

Foamguy,
We have occasionaly run dnc on three of our 4 Fadals where I work, and have not had any problems doing so with standard software. I like the fact they set these machines up at the factory to make it easy to dnc on them. I just wish our Fanucs were as easy to set up that way. I would not consider the programs we ran to be high speed machining though, just programs that were to large for the control to hold.

[lakeside]

replace with new if you can jusify it

[DareBee]

DNC to the Fadals is very simple.
I just upgraded my mem in my -3 control to 422K (which has made a major difference to me) still only holds about 25000 lines. but compared to what I hade that is massive.
I was told I could upgrade to -6 control with with 4 meg mem using "experienced" parts for about $5000.
I say again DNC is very simple, if you have a lot of short quick moves data starvation will be an issue.
Hope this helps some.

[carbidecraters]

We DNC contours on our fadals all the time. Complex and simple programs are a breeze to DNC. On contouring with one tool its very easy to DNC but when you start to make a complex program it gets hairy trying to proof it without the control if you have cheaper CAD/CAM programs. Again hook it up and DNC it...loading long programs are a complete waste of time if you only use them once and have to reload/shutdown process to clear memory.

[DareBee]

Just to make a counterpoint.
Loading long programs for 1-offs CAN be a real time saver.
I have a part with 12 sets of tapered pockets equally spaced around the perimeter; The code for 1 pocket is 400K my mem is 420K; at 19K baud and high feedrate my DNC starves; It will also take another couple of hours to generate the program in my CAM software another 11 times (I could hand edit and cut and paste); since this program will run for 30 hours I am too paranoid to trust a windows computer and cable link if I dont have to.
My solution is to edit the program with L200 at the top and L212 near the end also add an incremental rotation (G91 A-30.0)
Usually takes max 10min to transfer program to the machine, runs at full speed and my laptop can crash all it wants to.

[FoamGuy]

Thanks for all the help on the DNC side of the question--we may explore this, but it is equally likely we may just "go for the gold" and start swapping machines.

We seem to have high needs for being able to switch back-and-forth between fairly complicated CNC jobs--this is where slow program-upload feeds cause us the most trouble in our production activities. When we've tried to boost the baud rate to get faster loading, we have troubles with dropped lines of code, and other inaccuracies in the file.

We contacted the local Fadal provider to see if there were any other means of establishing good communication with these controllers (Ethernet, maybe?) and were told this is flat not possible. Very disappointing.

We may just have to live with having small Fadals running simple programs for high-volume parts, where the programs uploads are quick and easily accomplished. This may be the only place in our shop where these guys will really shine.

[carbidecraters]

If you need to move those fadals out of your shop and upgrade let me know via pm. We are always looking for more equipment

[Eddieweeks]

I just got a reman 15 with 4 megs it take ~2 min for 10,000 lines.. If you upgrade
thats what you will most likely get..

[Shizzlemah]

Foamguy,
try the RS422 comm port, ditch the RS232.