Fadal format1 or format2??
What are the pros and cons of Format1 and Format2 programing options?
We use format2 now, but most of the other Fadal shops around us seem to like Format1.
We program offline with Mastercam and the only post in the library is for Fadal Format2.
What is the difference, and are we missing out by staying in F2?
Thank you for your time,
Respectfully,
James Winn
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I have a VCM-20 at home I use format 2. I did work at a large shop with a lot of Fadals they ran format 2 untill machine became loose from wear then ran work on them that was mostly drilling and used format 1. This was because of the way the control generated code for holes.
1 vs 2
Thats a good question. I've only used format 1 and I like it but never having used 2 I have no idea if one is better than the other. Format 2 seems to be more popular on this forum. Some have gone as far as to say format 1 is a piece of crap and another called it g-code for dummies. When asked to explain why 2 is better than 1 or what 2 can do that 1 can't, no one wants to respond. Other than running Fanuc style programs what is the big deal about format 2? Maybe Neal can give us a brief rundown of the difference.
The main thing I detested about Format 1 was that it wants to go back to the XY zero to do a tool change, and then at the end it wanted to go back to the machine zero, that really sucks when your working on a fixture that is at the very end of the table.
I believe Format 1 was made so that if your handcoding, there isn't as much crap to add into your program, it just does it, it may not be what you want, but its going to do it anyways.
Like many others I have only ever used 1 format and that is format 2.
Similar to Bubba, I am under the impression that for programming from the machine control Format 1 is easier (might I even liken it to a VERY early version of conversational programming - LOL).
Format 2 gives 100% control over everything but you must do all the extra programming involved.
www.integratedmechanical.ca
Does MasterCam offer a post for Format1? I only see Fadal2
Format 1 is the original Fadal style of programming devised by Adrian deCaussin. With it some things happen automatically for you. The main things are at the end of the program the machine will ALWAYS return to home position. The threading feed rate is calculated by a "Q" word (the lead of the thread) and the RPM stated as an "F" word. Also CRC does not require a "D" word as the "H word read both length and diameter.
Format 2 is the Fanuc compatable style of programming sans the macro A & B. Bottom line for Format 2 is that if you want it to happen you need to write the code for it.
Sometimes the automatic things in Format 1 can get in the way. Format 2 is more flexable.
If anyone has any specific questions, let me know!
Neal
Are we loosing any fuctionality by running F2? We are so new to this right now we can still turn back and go with F1, but in a year or so...
Thank you all for your responses, it helps to hear from those of you with experience.
Respectfully,
James Winn
If your'e already running two I'd stay with it. I run 1 but I've been looking at both because of this debate. I honestly can't see anything one does that the other can't, with the exception of returning to 0 at M2, and that can be worked around. They just have minor differences in how they are programmed. In short your not loosing functionality and you are a little more flexable.
DAKING,
Thanks! Like I said, we don't have many programs in F2 yet so if I had to turn back, now is the time. It sounds like we will continue on in F2.
Thank you all for your input!!
James
I run format 1 and have worked around that return to zero issue.
At the end of the program, E0H0Z0X-10.Y+7. (to position the fixture near the operator)
M0 (wait for operator to reload and hit start)
#GOTO :MAIN (will loop back to 'main' macro and not re-home)
Of course you need a #:MAIN tag where you want the loop to start- typically after the M30 to end the subroutine definitions.
The only drawback is this does not properly reset the cycle time clock for the part being cut.
Another real simple way to position the table for loading in Format1 is something like
G0 Z0 H0 M9
X0 Y10. E0
M1 (OPTIONAL STOP SWITCH ON
X0 Y0 E0
M2
Down side is you have to push the start button twice. We do small lots so it's no big deal. It's also not real efficient if you don't want to spend time having the table go back to HO each cycle, but it works.
I program the FADALs using format 1. Format 2 is suppose to be FANUC format. I prefer the format 1 because I don't need ot use G43 or G49. And all the fixture offests are E codes. G54 through G59 is the same as E1 through E6 in either format. Other than that, I see no difference in functionality. *None. The other difference is M2 (FADAL) instead of a M30 (rewind code. format 2.) *I'm not sure how subroutines would programmed in format 2, since the subrountines as a group are ended with a M30 before the main program in format 1. (On Monday, now I'm going to have to look that one up.)
Anyway I do all my programming for the fadals in format 1. The HAAS mill uses the FANUC style programming.
There are some functionality issues which can be set and changed under PSET on the FADAL control. Such as how Canned Cycles run. On the fadal format 1, a canned cycle can be turned on without a move by using a M45. Or the parameter setting can be changed under PSET command. Caution: some of the PSET settings are factory settings required by your machine and must not be changed or the machine may malfuction. (Such as ball screw being Inch or Metric.) The factory settings are marked in the back of the control pendant. Others are adjustments that you only want your fadal service to do. Check your manual.
Safety - Quality - Production.
One other thing, G9 is default and modal on Fadals. On FANUC controls G9 is one shot non-modal. And on FANUC controls G61 is used for in position and is modal. And G64 is milling mode. G61 and G64 are not supported in the Fadal format 2. G8 non-ramping is like G64 and is also modal. In order to get the same results on the HAAS mill using the same feeds and speeds in milling as on the Fadal, I need to use G61. Also for 3D contouring on the fadal, the machine runs faster under G8, non-ramping. Depending on the feeds and speeds leaving tool marks or not G8 or G9 can make a difference. G9 for inside corners and perpendicular to part moves, G8 for outside surfaces and tangential moves. Unless I'm tapping or using point to point 3D surfaces, I always use G9.
Safety - Quality - Production.
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