How Can You Determine....

[jonbanquer]

what version of control software is running in the 88HS ?

jon

[cadman]

Go to the command prompt, type MU (menu) and it is on the last page. This is the software ID. The latest controller version is -5.

[jonbanquer]

Originally posted by cadman Go to the command prompt, type MU (menu) and it is on the last page. This is the software ID. The latest controller version is -5.

Okay, thanks for the info. On Monday I will go through our machines to check and see what versions they are running. Any idea how many different versions FADAL has of 88HS control software ?

BTW, Do you ever use the FADAL Function menu to program at the control. Really don't like the way the FADAL canned functions output G code and was wondering if there is any way to modify how the FADAL Functions output code.

jon

[cadman]

Originally posted by jonbanquer Okay, thanks for the info. On Monday I will go through our machines to check and see what versions they are running. Any idea how many different versions FADAL has of 88HS control software ? BTW, Do you ever use the FADAL Function menu to program at the control. Really don't like the way the FADAL canned functions output G code and was wondering if there is any way to modify how the FADAL Functions output code. jon

I believe the controller versions are -1 through -5. As far as software versions, I don't know. The differences in controllers are software AND hardware.
I use cad/cam for all my programming so I don't use the function menu. You will have to contact Fadal to see if the function menu can be modified. I did use it once just to see how it worked and never had any use for it since. I'm not a fan of shop floor programming anyways. The only time I actually program at the controller is when doing minor edits and small quick jobs like square ups, small numbers of holes, etc....

cadman

[BenTreamer]

Hi jon.


The ver 94.1 p4-3 is the highest software level compatible with the 1400-3 and 1400-4 cpu.

The -3 runs a whopping 8086 processor while the -4 is running a 80286 dx 40 if I recall.

The main difference from an operator standpoint is the -3 does not support a graphics card, according to a recent conversation I had with Neal at Fadal.

If you attempt to use the graphics function, nothing happens (as there is no card)---This is a pretty good tip off that you do not have a -4 cpu.

BTW: All the manuals are available from Fadal online as .PDF files, it is a no brainer that if you dont have one you should endeaver to print one off as it can be quite helpful untill you become more aquainted with the quirks of operating the controller keyboard functions.

I had close to 20 years experience on various controls when we bought our first Fadal and frankly, I was clueless even after exploring the keyboard for a couple of days. So I spent some time actually reading the manuals. For instance, pressing the manual key repeatedly toggles the controller between the command prompt and the mdi mode, this can be quite confusing at first. Add this to the fact that repeapely punching the space key makes various other menus appear and, well, you obviously understand what I am getting at.

So if you keep punching buttons and still seem to be clueless as to how the controller operator interface actually works, hopefully reading the manuals should help some.

Good luck,



Ben

[jonbanquer]

Originally posted by cadman I believe the controller versions are -1 through -5. As far as software versions, I don't know. The differences in controllers are software AND hardware. cadman

Checked three of our FADAL's today.

One says: Copyright (c) 1989-1997 FADAL Engineering ID 96.1 B4-3 Format 1.

Two of them said: Copyright (c) 1989-2002 FADAL Machining Centers ID Sys 102.1 Format 1

Translation please. :>)

jon

[jonbanquer]

Originally posted by BenTreamer Hi jon. For instance, pressing the manual key repeatedly toggles the controller between the command prompt and the mdi mode, this can be quite confusing at first. Add this to the fact that repeapely punching the space key makes various other menus appear and, well, you obviously understand what I am getting at. So if you keep punching buttons and still seem to be clueless as to how the controller operator interface actually works, hopefully reading the manuals should help some. Good luck, Ben

Well Ben I don't find it confusing. What I do find is that it
is very, very annoying that I have to press the manual
button many times to be able to input information or do
something when I'm coming out of Auto mode. Here
are some examples I noted today at work.

Moving from Auto mode to Jog mode requires pushing the manual button numerous times.

Moving from Auto mode to the screen that allows entering MDI
info requires at least three hits on the manual button.
Even though the proper screen with come up the first time,
you can't enter any info from the keyboard at that point !!!
You have to hit manual AGAIN which brings up the command
line (wrong screen) and then hit manual AGAIN to bring up
the screen for the second time that allows you to enter MDI
stuff.

You just don't have to do this kind of thing with other
controls that I have used.

What I really don't get is why you can't enter info in what
I call the MDI screen the first time coming out of Auto mode and
why I have to come back AGAIN to the MDI screen in order to get the FADAL to take typed input.


jon

[BenTreamer]

Hi jon.

Your in luck.

Im pretty sure this would mean you have a 1400-5 cpu in all of the machines!!!

I believe the -5 cpu and software was first introduced and marketed as "sys 99" It is running on a -386 processor.

This means you will have the advanced feed forward options, which may be helpful if you are doing any highspeed machining and wish to update serve tuning on the fly from program input.

BTW: the cpu resides in slot #5 in the main cage. If you power down the machine and remove the bar that secures the cards in the 1060-xx mother board, then carefully pull off the small buss connnector (pn1730-4), you can then pull the cpu card from the motherboard and read the cpu and eprom revision levels.

I would suggest you use standard anti static precautions and make sure you have the shop owner or foremans permission before poking around in the cabinets as these cards are fairly expensive to replace.

There will be one or two daughter cards on the 1400-xx cpu. It will always have a 1610 -1 card , which has the eproms containing the operating system. It is about 2 x 4 inches rectangular and has six eproms on it. If you update the operating system, this is the sub card that gets replaced.

If the control has extended memory, there will also be a 1460-xx card attached to the 1400-x This is a long skinny bugger and is a little bit fragile. I would suggest not removing this unless there is clearly a good reason to do so.


At any rate, Fadal has an exchange program where they update free of charge the operating system eproms 1610 card through exchange.

I would suggest contacting Fadal because I am pretty sure the 96.1 eprom is obsolete. The latest revision we have in our machine with the -5 cpu is sys 102.1 40 02 There may be a later version available, I have not checked in a while. There may be some minor differances in the operator interface between the various software levels and this could cause confusion to any new operator if he is required to operate several of the machines where a different software level is installed on some of them.

Jon, It is unclear to me why you would have such a keen interest in details regarding the cpu and software level on the Fadal when it seems from reading some of your other posts your time may be better managed in becoming more familiar with operating the controller keyboard and becoming aquainted with the various menu provided ???



Ben

[jonbanquer]

Originally posted by BenTreamer Hi jon. Jon, It is unclear to me why you would have such a keen interest in details regarding the cpu and software level on the Fadal when it seems from reading some of your other posts your time may be better managed in becoming more familiar with operating the controller keyboard and becoming aquainted with the various menu provided ??? Ben

Ben,

I really have only one interest at the moment and that is finding out why I must press the manual button three times to get to the point where I can enter input in the MDI screen when moving from Auto to Manual. It is bewildering to me why I can not enter input when the MDI screen first appears and I have to return to it a SECOND time to be able to input data. I have not had any problems becoming acquainted with the various menus. I do have problems getting the MDI screen to accept data when it first appears when moving from Auto to Manual, though.

Thanks for the other input. Perhaps at a later time it might be helpful.

jon

[BenTreamer]

Originally posted by jonbanquer Well Ben I don't find it confusing. What I do find is that it is very, very annoying that I have to press the manual button many times to be able to input information or do something when I'm coming out of Auto mode. Here are some examples I noted today at work. Moving from Auto mode to Jog mode requires pushing the manual button numerous times. Moving from Auto mode to the screen that allows entering MDI info requires at least three hits on the manual button. Even though the proper screen with come up the first time, you can't enter any info from the keyboard at that point !!! You have to hit manual AGAIN which brings up the command line (wrong screen) and then hit manual AGAIN to bring up the screen for the second time that allows you to enter MDI stuff. You just don't have to do this kind of thing with other controls that I have used. jon

Jon, while it may seem annoying it only takes a fraction of a second.

The first time is to process a reset and terminate automatic execution of the part program control. After that you are just changing from the "command prompt" to MDI.

While on the "command prompt" a series of "quick key" menus are available by pressing the space bar. On early models these quick key menus were not available and were only acessable by inputting a two key code. Incidentally, the quick keys menu can be disabled by parameter change.

It should be apparent the reason for this was to eliminate cost and maintenance of having a big rotary mode select switch like the older cnc always had.

an advantage over other controllers is this layout leaves the jog function available at all times.

I guess the short answer would be its just the way it is and despite some folks being annoyed, Fadal is likely to change the operator interface at this point in the game.

You dont have to like it, but sometimes it is best to accept what you cannot change and get on with life and deal with more important things.

Btw, to go into jog from auto, all one has to do is press feedhold and then jog. When you press manual again the control will allow you to continue in auto after asking if you want to keep the jogged position or move back to the programmed position.


Ben

[Paul_S]

I believe SYS 102.1 is the latest OS. 96.1 B4-3 is a good OS. I requeasted to have two 1998 machines OS down graded to 96.1 B4-3 do problem with OS (version?) that came with those two machines.

You can run JOG in Auto mode if you press Feed Hold. And then continue at a new location or go back.

Is the problem of pressing the Manual key to go to MDI only on one of the machines? Or the same on all of them?

The typical problem, if any I have, is pressing the Manual key while the machine is stopped in single block mode and having the auto mode quit out to the command mode.

Anyway the Manual key from Auto mode (stopped motion) must be pressed twice to get to MDI. (Stopped motion ether by single block or feed hold.)

[BenTreamer]

jon,


What is happening is you must press the manual button one time to exit program execution. At that point you are not yet in mdi mode, rather you are at the "command prompt" which as I have explained earlier, is used to enter edit mode, change offsets, etc., by entering in "two key" commands to acess the menus. The need to enter "two key" commands has been eliminated in most cases, by use of the various menus that, through software improvements are now accesable by pressing the space bar whenever the controller is in "command prompt" mode

The "command prompt" is a distinctly different function from MDI, which is used to enter actual code to make the machine move and change tools ect. The code to be entered in MDI is "G" code, the same code as is actually used to machine parts with.

Pressing the manual key from the command prompt causes the control to go into MDI, where machine "G" code can then be entered.

Pressing it again causes the control to go back into "command prompt" mode again and so on..

It is okay to be a little confused, or "bewildered" as you put it.

This is part of any learning experience and is actually a "good thing" as it shows you are motivated to learn something new.


============

jon said:

I really have only one interest at the moment and that is finding out why I must press the manual button three times to get to the point where I can enter input in the MDI screen when moving from Auto to Manual. It is bewildering to me why I can not enter input when the MDI screen first appears and I have to return to it a SECOND time to be able to input data. I have not had any problems becoming acquainted with the various menus. I do have problems getting the MDI screen to accept data when it first appears when moving from Auto to Manual, though.

============

jon also said:

Well Ben I don't find it confusing. What I do find is that it
is very, very annoying that I have to press the manual
button many times to be able to input information or do
something when I'm coming out of Auto mode. Here
are some examples I noted today at work.

============

I will try to watch this board and if you have any questions, I will try to answer them as best I can, but I may be going out of town for a couple of days, so if you get a chance to print the operator manual from the Fadal site you maybe should really consider doing so and studying it some. It couldnt hurt and it certainly helped me a whole lot when we got our first Fadal.


Ben