Was wondering,.....

[Crispymetal-fab]

Hello,

I have a Fadal 4020 w/cnc 88 controler. I'm very new to using a VMC. Primary job is making parts out of sheet metal(lasered, punched, brake, etc.). Only real experience machining is using our old Bridgeport Ez-Trak for milling brake dies and the odd very simple machine job.

So I hope these next few questions don't seem to dumb.
When I want to buy new tool holders for the turret, what kind of taper do i need. Or am I somehow thinking of this the wrong way(have only ever used R8 collets for the bridgeport.


Should I trust this machine to tap on its own or should I put a Tapmatic in there. If so, would the coolent splashing around there cause shorter life on the Tapmatic?

And last question for this thread as I hope I'm not asking too much already: can this machine broch? Nothing coming up yet that would require it yet, but love to just try it as I play with it to learn it.

Thanks,
Curt

[Chrliev]

The Fadal VMC 4020 uses stabdard Cat CT40 taper tooling, BT40 taper tooling is not compatible with the tool changer, all CT40 Toolholders should have the standard Fadal retention knob (use Loctite) attached tightly onto the small end.

As for tapping your machine should come equipped with the rigid-tapping feature, it works great. If it does not try using a standard CT40 taper, floating tap holder and tapping collets, I wouldn't recommend using a self reversing Tap-matic tapping attachment.

As for broaching, theoritically it is possible using spindle orientation but the machine is not really designed to broach in the traditional sense, you could possibly exceed the machines Z-axis thrust capabilities. I would use a press for broaching.

[scadvice]

Is it a CNC 88 or a CNC88HS and what year is the machine? Older models do not have rigid tapping. Open the back of the pendant there should be a sheet afixed to the inside of the door that will tell you if it has rigid tapping and other options. Without that option you will need a floating tap holder and/or a tapping head. Also standard is Cat 40 taper but they do come with BT40 sometimes.
Steve

[Crispymetal-fab]

It uses a fadal 88 cnc. I don't belive its a 88hs as I don't see hs anywhere on the controller or machine. The year is 1990 as that the serial number starts with 90****.... I looked in the back of the pendent and didn't see the sheet say anything about ridged tapping. So i think i should asume it can't.

Next question I have now is there a way to orient the spindle? I would like to indicate my vise and stops with out having to take out my indicater, loosen up collet, turn indicator 90 de. tighten back up, put back in ect...
I see that the spindle has to orient itself for tool changes. Can it be done manually?

[scadvice]

Look for a list inside the servo and controller cab. on the right back side sometimes there is a loose sheet in the door.

To orientate the spindle in MDI:

M19 Spindle Stop
and Orient
This is used to stop and orient the spindle. This orientation lock is released by
using an M3 or M4 or by pressing the SPINDLE ON/OFF button.

Steve

[Chrliev]

Yes M19 for spindle orientation.

I would never leave an indicator in a toolholder in the toolchanger, accidentally a wrong toolchange and turning on the spindle could cause a highspeed, unguided missile to go flying through your shop. It could cause injury, not to mention ruin an expensive indicator...!

I use an indicator holder called an Indicol, which attaches onto the outside of any toolholder, cost is about $75 and it only takes 10 seconds to attach and remove. How often do you need an indicator maybe once per setup. Safety should never be over looked...

[Crispymetal-fab]

Thank you, using the M codes seems to do the trick.

Yeah, defintly won't leave the indicator in there. Not just for the off chance of wrong tool change, but dont like the idea of coolent getting on it and ruining it that way.

Will look in the controller cabinet now and see if I can find a spec sheet that says anything about tapping.

[ASIGuy]

Gentlemen,

You can tell if your tool changer is set up for BT or CT tooling by looking at the tool pocket in the Fadal ATC. There is a ring that grips the tool, and a locating tab that fits into the tool holder slot and holds it from spinning when the tool is in the tool turret. If the tab is installed on the upper part of the pocket, you have a BT TC. If it is on the bottom of the pocket, you have a CT TC. By purchasing new clips for the tool changer, this tool changer can easy switch from CT to BT. Obviously in buying tooling, buy what the machine is set up for to save money in your case. If you had a shop full of machines with CT tooling and you just acquired a new (to you) Fadal with BT, I would change it over to be compatible with all the others.

I have attached all the Fadal G & M codes for your future reference. We have all the manuals for free download also if you need further information on operation or programming. Sometimes machines come in the door with no books, so this will be a handy reference page for you:

FADAL MACHINE DOCUMENTATION

As far as rigid tapping, coolant on the Tapmatic is no issue. They are sealed and operate in this enviroment daily. Your coolant will be guided to the hole and tap anyway, so the body will only get residual splashing and that is fine.

Also, take a look at the photo I attached of the card rack. The card you need to look at is in slot 14 of the card rack. This is your spindle controller card, and if yours is really old, you will not even have the 10 blue connector at all (1010-1 cards). Look for the cable plugged in. If this is plugged in, you have rigid tapping. If not, you don't. This can likely be upgraded fairly easily in the future if you don't have it and want it later. When this time comes, let me know and there will be some things we need to look at.

I hope this was helpful. We are here to support you with your new, used Fadal so feel free to call, email or post here. You have a wealth of support available.

Cheers!

Brian D.
FadalCNC

[Waynno]

I do tapping on my VMC 40 all the time,

It does not have rigid tapping, so there are a couple of things I do to keep the tap from breaking

1) use roll taps whenever I can, Less likely for chips to pack up and cause breakage

2) run the spindle not more than 300 rpm, this gives the machine better stopping
and reversing control. I have found faster RPMs , the machine may coast a turn or
so before it reverses and can cause the tap to pull from the holder

3) Floating tap holders are a must, they can make up a bit of error when reversing,
All major tool suppliers have them, they are not as expensive as it may sound

4) use at least a 1 inch rapid plane, especially when tapping multiple holes,
as stated above, taps can creep out of the holder and a watchful eye can
stop the machine if necessary and push the tap back in the holder.

I personally not use a Fadal CNC mill as a broach, its not what they are built for,
My opinion , you would most likely get overload errors, and cause unnecessary
wear and stress on the machine.

all of the above advise is my rule of thumb, some may not agree with all of it,
but knock on wood, I have never had a service call on my VMC 40 ever these past
14 years, And I run it all the time, Its due for some ball screws and some TLC, but
aside from that it runs great

Wayne