Replacement of VMCs with 104-d controller

[SixStringer]

Hi,

I'm not a machinist, but a business owner so please forgive my lack of technical understanding.

In early March, my company took delivery of two new VMC 5020 units with the 104-d digital controllers. I don't have anything to add regarding the problems, as it seems to me that the things my team has reported to me (and some I've watched occur firsthand) have already been discussed here.

With respect for the rules of this site and forum, I would like to know if there is a website, user group or some means of sharing of information between customers who have bought machines with this controller, regarding machine replacements and settlement with Fadal.

I am now in negotiation with Fadal management and I'm thinking that I and others in my position would benefit from some dialog between us.

Thanks for any insight.

Regards,

SixStringer

[Karl_T]

The group here is mostly individual machinists and hobby types.

If you have access to Usenet, I'd suggest you post to alt.machines.cnc mostly machines shop types over there.

Karl

[Scott_bob]

Originally Posted by SixStringer Hi, In early March, my company took delivery of two new VMC 5020 units with the 104-d digital controllers. I don't have anything to add regarding the problems, as it seems to me that the things my team has reported to me (and some I've watched occur firsthand) have already been discussed here. I am now in negotiation with Fadal management and I'm thinking that I and others in my position would benefit from some dialog between us. SixStringer

You'd be well advised to use this site for reference concerning your awareness of the long term issues with this control. I can tell you that Fadal Engineering watches this site very closely, especially lately...
I believe this internet forum has enabled a lot of us to network and more quickly leverage our complaints, with pretty quick response from Fadal Engineering. I have not heard of any buyers who have been turned down their legal right to refund or replacement.

Good luck,

[TR MFG]

I was involved in just the sort of thing that you are describing. While our problems where not with a 104D but with a factory re-man with the “legacy 88 control”. We negotiated a settlement with Fadal but it took some time and the involvement of several Fadal field reps. I would be more than happy to share my experience with you.

[jwm1229]

I am new to your form, but i would to know isthe 104d discontinued or just on hold for updates as I have been told ,thnaks.

[TR MFG]

I was told by my Fadal dealer that the 104D is on hold for now till they get the bugs worked out. He told me that new machines are shipping with the legecy, 88HS, control as the standard control right now. He also said that it should only take a few weeks to get the bugs worked out. I find it funny that if you go to Fadal's website it makes no mention of the control.

[Scott_bob]

TR MFG,

It would be absolutely absurd that Fadal Engineering would put out a CNC machine control to even "one customer" with as many bugs as have been outlined here, IF THE FIX WOULD ONLY TAKE A FEW WEEKS TO WORK OUT.

IMO, the "bugs" are far more systemic than just an errant code that can be quickly identified and "fixed"...

We'll see I suppose,

[klclark]

Wow!!!

I was searching the forums for help in developing a post processor for my 104d control. We have been running this machine for a little over a year now, and it runs great when it's not broken! The spindle motor had to be replaced twice already; the second replacement, Fadal upgraded us to an air oil spindle. The computer system has also had to be replaced, before replacing the computer system I couldn't network to the machine as well as other bugs that I see described here. Our drive belts are shot now and I'm waiting for our reseller to resolve this (we can only run in high range).

One large disappointment is how quickly the "powder coat finish" came off of the sheet metal. I have a 10 year old HAAS VFOE sitting next to the Fadal that has more paint left in the chip pan than the Fadal. I dont want to have a system in place that they will no longer support, and I dont want to water down capabilities by switching to a different control. We bought this machine because of the control's capabilities and price!

Damn!!! (My vent)

[carbidecraters]

I think the 104 shows a great promise if it can be made to work well. I really like the 88hs control interface and even though its a slow setup (in later models) it sure does work well....kind of a goofy deal when your ramping in a spiral cutter comp in multiple areas of one fixture offset.

[Scott_bob]

Personally, I'd have to say that this control of Fadals is nothing more than a boat anchor. This latest product from a US company (which I like) is just one more control on a list of bad controls. The 88, the Mp32, the 104d are all bad controls.
What makes a control bad, is its performance.
If a control cannot handle accuracy, it's bad.
If a control cannot handle reasonable feed rates, it's bad.
I don't really care (comparatively) how good it's interface is, because I did not buy a GUI (Graphical User Interface) from Fadal Engineering, I bought a CNC controlled milling machine. The CNC machine is so much better, without any of Fadal's own controls. In Fadal's case, perhaps they considered this 104d as "third times a charm"...

In my opinion, it's more like "3 strikes and you're out"!
BTW, we researched all of Fadals controls, including the 104d, and Fanuc controled Japanese made CNCs, by using our "designed test cut". No CNC (in this price range) even came close to the performance of the Numeryx / Rubicon retrofit HSM control.
This control (on our Fadal machine) is humming along with better accuracy at consistant high feeds in excess of 200 Inches per minute.

Fadal Engineering should buy one of these, they could learn a lot!