Anyone regret buying too big.. ?

[Eddieweeks]

I have a choice between a ~$27k tool room mill...
and a Fadal 3016L for ~41k....

the problem is All I need it the tool room mill...for now..
If I get the 3016L I will need to run it much longer to pay for it..

I am not in the Machine shop business (guess I am now)
I design and build UAVs.... cutting Delrin, aluminum...

http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/

from the specs the 3016 is 3 times the machine as a tool room...

Has anyone ever wished they got the smaller machine... ?
(silly sounding question) but that is what I am worried about..

I have enough contacts to most likely keep either machine busy till
its paid for, much longer for the 3016

Does anyone here have both, and can tell me how much better the 3016L is than a TM1.. Thanks

Eddie Weeks

[miljnor]

if the tool room mill dosn't have a tool changer then that is a major factor... don't know fadals tool room stuff but I would buy the bigger one. although I think that price is a little high(for used, I am assuming). what year is the fadal and what condition?

there is no end to the benifits of a tool changer.

[Eddieweeks]

I really don't want to get into the differences between Haas and Fadal but
my choice was a Haas TM-1 with 10 tool changer (7.5 hp, 200 rapid) vs
Factory referbished Fadal 3016L (15 hp, 700 rapid)... 3300 lbs vs 6100 lbs..
There are a lot if differeces... but the price diff is 14K.... is it really that much better. ?
Thanks for the help..

Eddie

[sendkeys]

how much surface/small bit work you doing? or do you use most your time drilling?


at 100% feedrate
1/2 carbine 2flute drillbit is 5.5 hp (11hp for 4 flute)
3/4 carbine 2flute drill but is 10hp (crazy hp for 4flure hehe)
1inch hss 1flute is 2.6
2inch hss 2flute is 8hp



looking up on some websites that haas is only 4000rpm when the fadal is 7500rpm

with a 1/4 4flute carbine endmill thats 25ipm ver 45ipm +-(2flute 9ver18ipm+-)
or 1/2 4flute carbine endmill 50ipm ver 100ipm+- (2flute would be about the same ipm)

Do you have the work for the fadal to run 12hours day ? if not you can allmost get two of the haas for the same price if you start turning away work
just some idea's ,to help i hope..

[DareBee]

Those prices look to be NEW machine prices.
For most (not all) of what I use my 4020 for; I would only need a toolroom as well.
I would DEFINATELY get the VMC 1) full enclosure - you can hose the piss out of it with coolant and everything stays IN the machine.
2) You will use the ATC and wonder how you get by without one.
I strongly recomend you spring for the "ridgid tap" feature up front, it will cost extra as an add-on and it is well worth the money.
My 2 cents.

[cadman]

I regret not buying big enough. I have 4020s and wish they were 6030 or 6535.

[HuFlungDung]

You'd think a Haas 40 by 20 might be too big for small work, but really, if you put 3 or 4 standard Kurt 6" vises on it, its just the right size

[DareBee]

Ya Hu
A 4020 looks small when you have a rotary 4th, 2 Kurt 688s and an 8" 3jaw on it as well.

Eddie did you check out the Fadal EMC as well $33k list.

[surface]

Eddie, I think you have it right when you say, "I am not in the Machine shop business",
and I believe you need to ask yourself if you want to be. Either machine will get your foot in the door, but as a first step, consider if being a machine shop is really what you want to do with your life. The initial cost of the machine is only one factor. After adding rigging, tool holders, vices, perishable tooling, a computer, CAD/CAM software, insurance....add more for an air compressor, a saw, inspection equipment….. and soon you are a machine shop and not a designer and builder of UVAs.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from your purchase to the contrary; machine shop is a nice trade. What I am saying is that regardless of which machine, it is a big expense and requires a lot of time and skill to master. Unless you are careful, you can find yourself tied to a trade which was intended as a minor aspect of your business.
If you decide to move forward, the 3016 would be my choice. Unless things have changed, the 3016 was built on the same iron as the 4020, but with a smaller table and sheet-metal.

[Kool Parts]

I dont think "big" is the issue, as much as capability. For the money difference I wouldent think about the toolroom type machines. The full enclosure and chip auger pays for itself the first day in my opinion. And the castings, ect are bigger heavier.
The "Factory referbished Fadal 3016L" is something I dont know anything about, so not sure where you would be on the price.
I look forward to the day I can get a VF7, its nice to stand in front of a 15' wide machine that you can put 10 688 Kurts on
Gary

[Shizzlemah]

Always go bigger than you need. Always.

An automatic tool changer is worth it's weight in gold. And an enclosed machine (with flood coolant!) will let you run 3x as fast as you could on an open machine.

[miljnor]

well both machines have tool changers..

so the issue is encloser and capability... I am a haas man but learned on the fadals... so this is my advice.... buy the fadal.. its a good machine and an enclsure and a fully capable mill is much better than a toolroom mill.

don't limit yourself with the toolroom go the full cnc rout.

like stated previously those look like new machine prices, wouldn't touch a used machine of either model (no matter the condition) for those prices.

pretty much everone one here has said the same thing... buy the bigger badder machine.... so if you go with the tool room mill.... I wont say any more :P