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Thread: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

  1. #37
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    So I am working on three things in parallel on this project. The frame, which I have all of the steel for except the guards. The quartz frame which I have cut up and found that I am short the pieces for the side supports and the table and the X axis gantry. The gantry I am taking slow because that is where I will get the accuracy for the mill. I have also been working on the design, which I feel pretty good about except for the upper enclosure.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-router-base-enclosure-3-9-png
    The mill will have guards with a gap of 50 mm all the way around which allow the chips to fall into the blue chip pan shown in the rendering. I still need to finish this design but the pan will pull out for disposal of the chips. I am thinking of 8020 for the enclosure but have not locked in on this yet.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-img_2951-1-jpgQuartz Counter top for Mill Base-img_2952-1-jpg
    I am trying a 25% fill 3d print of PLA for a crushable spacer to allow me to adjust the surface of the linear way. The jack screws come up from the bottom (shown in the right picture) and allow me to adjust to within 0.0001. My original test failed as I couldn't get the crush I needed to level the way mounts. I removed the outer parts of the 3d spacer and reassembled and was happy with the results, I was able to get my 0.0001" but ran into two problems.

    I did a two minute time lapse and found that I was getting about 0.0001 creep. I re-zeroed the indicator and went to the bar for a few hours, guys gotta have fun, and found the creep is 0.00035". So I am still not to the point I want to commit with JB Weld to lock in the 3d spacer. In the mean time I will work on the tube frame and quartz frame.



  2. #38
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    At that level of accuracy, you could be getting either creep in the PLA material or a thermal change. It gets difficult.
    Cheers
    Roger



  3. #39
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    Cool alternative method of building.

    Why did you put the carbon fiber in a sandwich wlong the neutral axis? I would have add much more stiffness out on an outer surface wouldn't it?

    To get really flat, have you considered epoxying strips of cast iron to the granite, and then scraping it in?
    Mark

    Regards,
    Mark


  4. #40
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    All of the exterior surfaces will be covered in carbon. The reason for the sandwich was to set the mounting surface for the linear rail riser as flat as possible which it did. I have bonded two 1/8" x 3/4" angle iron pieces to the cross pieces for a new jack screw arrangement I will use. I have decided that I can't use 3d printed spacers for setting the surface so I will be using another jack screw system in opposition to the rear system currently used. I will have pictures with a diagram explaining shortly. I need to let the epoxy set and do the new carbon layup before I try the new jack system. More to come.



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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    I will admit to having some considerable reservations about relying on deliberate distortion to get a flat surface. I would prefer to get someone to polish the surface FLAT at the start.
    My bias.
    Cheers
    Roger.



  6. #42
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    I have some reservations myself Roger but this build is about finding out what can be done and if I screw it up someone else can learn from it. The latent stresses were more of a concern before I read about prestressed concrete. Basically steel rods are put under stress so the concrete is preloaded which improves the strength. Wikipedia has a good article about it. So the main thing I am concerned about is creep over time were my machine becomes more and more relaxed causing it to move. I have done the carbon fiber coating on the backside of the X axis gantry to lock the gantry in place as much as possible.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-carbon-fiber-x-axis-gantry-jpg
    I am using 20 layers of carbon in the short side with flat being covered with 8.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-carbon-fiber-x-axis-gantry-peal-ply
    I then covered the ends where it will attach to the z axis riser with peal ply so I won't have to do any post layup sanding, just pull the peal ply and add additional layups.
    Going back to my setup I bonded 1/8" x 3/4" angle iron to the side of the gantry. I will use this to push against for correcting my flatness. This was then covered with JB weld on the outside to prevent any galvanic interaction with the carbon fiber. Probably not as big a concern as the aluminum inserts but I am doing everything I can to prevent it.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-carbon-fiber-x-axis-gantry-end-view
    You can see where I have coated the angle iron and if you look at the edge above it I used a flapper wheel on my angle grinder to put a radius on it so that the carbon layers would not lift.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-carbon-fiber-x-axis-gantry-angle-peal
    I covered the angle iron with peal ply to keep from having to do a post cure sanding. This worked great.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-carbon-fiber-x-axis-gantry-tape-jpg
    The holes were filled with paper and then taped to keep as much epoxy from filling the holes as possible. Post cure, I will drill the carbon layer out to reveal the holes.
    The next step will be to fabricate the jack screw plates, (22) required, and mount them. Next is another dry run to see how close I can get to 0.0001" flatness.
    If I can get the flatness but I have creep then I will hone the linear rail surface flat.
    Thanks for reading, more to come.

    Last edited by keffer322; 03-21-2017 at 11:10 AM.


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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    Hi Keffer

    No problems at all about running the experiment. Experiments are always good. (Professionally I am an experimental physicist.)

    My wondering is about the material. Is this synthetic quartz (ie made with some sort of resin) or natural sawn quartz?
    Hum - natural granite is widely available, but natural quartz in blocks? I dunno.
    Anyhow, we do know that natural granite can be amazingly stable. I believe high end CNCs use it sometimes.

    Cheers
    Roger



  8. #44
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    Hi Roger
    The material that I am using is a man made quartz with a resin binder. This web site https://www.msistone.com/quartz-tech...pecifications/ has some good information about the material.

    The web site has done testing on the material https://www.msistone.com/download/Qu...ifications.pdf if you would like to see that.

    I was interested in the epoxy granite thread and this material is a factory made version of this. I originally was planning on using aluminum but even using pieces from the local Alro supply was going to be $3.00 a pound. While shopping for counter tops with my wife I found a local supplier with pieces of quartz counter top left over from jobs for $10 a square foot. I took a few samples and found it was fairly easy to work with. I then modified the design I was working on to use this material. So the good is that it is cheap and weighs less than aluminum and has better vibration dampening than cast iron. The bad is it has 1/3 the bending strength of aluminum. I ran a stress analysis with carbon fiber covering the quartz and was impressed with the results. My plan is to check results with reality when the current layup has had time to set. I don't know this yet but my guess is that the larger the piece the more the carbon fiber will help. So that's a summary of how I got where I am and what I know about the material. I will continue to post my results good or bad.
    Cheers to you.



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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    I should have Googled first. But offcuts - neat!

    Have you though of adding stiffening ribs underneath, with epoxy and bolts to join them? Just wondering.

    Cheers
    Roger



  10. #46
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    It has been cold in Michigan so I have let the composites sit a bit and worked on the design and frame construction.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-design-4-2-17-png
    I don't like sweeping chips so I have designed in a tray, shown in blue, to collect everything that falls down the chutes.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-frame-tray-4-2-17-jpg
    Here is the frame with the chip tray in place. I am using 4" steel v wheels riding on angle to track inside the frame. I still need to finish the design for the end but it will be two wheels riding on the concrete.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-scrap-tray-supports-jpgQuartz Counter top for Mill Base-frame-scrap-tray-supports-jpg
    I am using 1" square tubing x 1/16" for the scrap tray frame. I found some 7/8" key stock which I pressed into the support brackets so the frame could slip together/apart when I need to work under the machine.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-frame-scrap-tray-supports-installed-jpg
    I will have a 2" gap all the way around the perimeter to allow chips to fall into the chute. Hopefully this keeps things clean.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-way-covers-underside-pngQuartz Counter top for Mill Base-way-covers-top-side-jpg
    The green way covers will help move the chips to the tray. I am attaching them to my table so as it moves back and forth the chips will move to the end scrap chutes. I am using springs to attach the two ends together (see bottom view).
    By the time the frame is done it should be warm enough to go back to the composites. I hate heating the shop to 75 when it's in the 20's outside.



  11. #47
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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    Haven't posted in awhile but I have been working. I switched to the mechanical components while the weather warmed and have completed some of the way cover roller mechanism.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-rollers-jpg
    Rendering of the way cover roller assembly
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-way-cover-bearing-plate-jpg
    Plates are complete and I am working on the bearing spindles.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-sub-table-jpg
    The steel frame and guards are mostly complete but I still need to weld in angle iron hold down for the quartz sub table.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-sub-table-side-jpg
    I need to tap the inserts in the end pieces and then I will bond the sub table together on my surface plate. Missing in this picture are stub pieces that will go between the outer and inner plates. When all are bonded the sides will be covered with eight layers of carbon fiber.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-table-frame-jpg
    Rendering of table reinforcement without top plate.

    I plan on getting the sub table completed and then I can paint the frame and move the mill into its final location to anchor it down. At that point I can level and bond the table top to the sub frame. The linear ways bolt to the table top.
    Thanks for following.



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    Default Re: Quartz Counter top for Mill Base

    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-setup-bonding-jpg
    This is my setup on my surface plate. The table mounting surface is face down. The right side is my master side and I used two blocks for spacers for distance and squareness. The dimension between the to outside surfaces with the blocks was within 0.5mm of the design dimension. The only real critical dimension is between the two inner rails. I used the 12" calipers to set that dimension, worked well. The third rail from the right is held square with the large square. I want these surfaces dimensional correct and straight because I will mount the angle iron piece for jacking the table surface straight there. Bolts will be threaded up into the linear rail mounting inserts to pull the table down. Holes will be drilled between those holes to jack the table up. More to come on that when I mount the table.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-jb-weld-applied-bonding-jpg
    I applied JB weld to both the end piece and the rails.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-corner-fillet-jpg
    Used a stick to radius the corners. I will have to add chopped carbon fiber and epoxy to make the radius larger before the fabric is applied.
    Quartz Counter top for Mill Base-dad-fillet-jpg
    This is my dad giving me a hand with the project. He turned 85 last week. Thanks for the help Dad.



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