The Coming Climate Change

[Geof]

Originally Posted by MrWild .... The best one is just bury the numbers in a spread sheet. People HATE looking at them for information. Lazy wins out....

And I thought I was the only one who wrote a long boring introduction, put the important stuff in the middle followed by a long boring conclusion, when I wanted someone to agree to something in writing but not know exactly what they had agreed to.

Mr Wild do you have a degree in communication or mis-communication .

[307startup]

Originally Posted by alexccmeister How I wish I am where you are not where I am. Sorry my friend, Brunei is rich but the people don't own it. Its owned by a family here and thats as far as it goes. The supercars are owned by the same family. There are many poors here and too much self interests by a minority group that gives me a headache just thinking about it. I am ashamed to be even be called a Bru%$^en. Seriously. And I am not religious at all, I am not a muslim, nor am I a christian, I am a buddist but by birth and I don't practice it as much as I should. So you don't really know me and can't judge me just because I come from a rich country and a few words that has religious connotation. Who is paranoid here? Where I come from to insult the family is a crime punishable by jail term. Who dares to criticize? No one and those that does are outside of the country and do so under an assumed name. But here's the difference, you live in a country that is a democracy. And you can (so to speak) pick and choose who to run for office and take care of the country and the world. I believe USA has the capability to take the lead and to be the big brother to look after the world (and I am willing to accept that simply because some governments in the east couldn't care less), but not with the people like bush who just want to reap for his benefit. You like him and people like cheney because he doesn't want to accept the kyoto protocol not because he is looking after your welfare, its because he is looking after his and his alone.

alexccmeister

I apologize if I have offended you. I did not intend to. I normally do not apologize for what I say, however, with any webforum, physical cues and inflection do not come through, so without very careful wording, it is easy to sound different than what was intended.

As for being paranoid...if I were exhibiting signs of UNHEALTHY paranoia, it would be possible to shake off my words as ranting from an unstable person. I have literally been around the world and seen combat in 5 countries. I know what it's like to have unknown enemies who want you dead for no reason other than you are a convenient target or are unliked as an outsider. I have experienced several different cultures. I have enjoyed most of them. Some I have learned to be grateful for my own culture.

As for Bush, like a lot of service people, I voted for him because I knew he'd take care of the military. Our first question when he started running for president, was when are we going to Iraq? I found out a year later. Since then, I have had the dubious honor of meeting both him and Cheney. Cheney also happens to be from my state and home town. I think he's an alright person, definitely misguided by his fundamentalist beliefs, and a horrible leader. His one saving grace is his ability to recognize the abilities in others. Say what you will about the current group holding high offices, they know how to play ball.

I don't practice any religion and I tolerate others' beliefs, so long as they do not interfere with mine. When I was stationed in Saudi Arabia, it infuriated me that our service women were made to wear burkhas. That is NOT part of our military uniform. For chrissakes, we couldn't have Playboy in our PX. I personally don't care for porn, but if some guy wants to look at airbrushed models and read inane article, more power to him. When we're "guests" of another country, we have to abide by their rules, no matter how backwards they may be.

As for the US being the "big brother" and "leading the way", I say no thank you. Our constitution says nothing of spreading democracy, promoting democracy or establishing democracies. Only to guarantee ours. Besides, we are technically a democratic republic, and thank god for that, because true democracy would have ruined our country at least 150 years ago. Most people are barely able to care for themselves, let alone make decisions that affect people besides themselves.

So...India and China together have 3 billion (BILLION!!!) people...America has 330 million people. I should forego, give up, go without (and many other meaningless phrases) my standard of living to "lead the way" while 10 times as many people do far worse things environmentally to "bootstrap" themselves to economic superpowers? We're about to give away our middle class so that they can gain theirs? Not the world I care for my children to inherit. Give me a real solution. For a real problem.

[dynosor]

Originally Posted by alexccmeister but not with the people like bush who just want to reap for his benefit. You like him and people like cheney because he doesn't want to accept the kyoto protocol not because he is looking after your welfare, its because he is looking after his and his alone.

Alex

Bush did NOT reject signing the Kyoto protocol. Signing Kyoto came up during the Clinton administration, but Clinton was forbidden by the US senate from signing it.

I am no Bush fan. As proof of this statement, read what I posted here: GW: Questions for presidential candidates


I suggest you research signing Kyoto yourself. Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...clinton+senate

For instance:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=10&gl=us

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...1998/story.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.c...is_matters.php

[alexccmeister]

Hi WYLD,

No worries, none taken. You are right, sometimes its difficult to sound mild and saying something strong over the net in text form. TBH I have always looked up to the states for being the perfect candidate for a big brother. For being the balancer of evil. History has seen many a times where USA has done her bit to rid the world of really bad people. I am glad when they caught Saddam and hanged him for what he did. But it would be a big responsibility to look after the whole world though.

Maybe the day will come when USA has to take up the lead role again to sort out the mess we put ourselves in, i.e. pollution and the likes. Who else would? China? India? I don't think so. After all we are living under the same roof, so to speak. So when the s4!t hits the fan, everyone gets it.

Maybe I have been watching too much movies. LOL.

[dynosor]

Originally Posted by jhowelb "Mariss"...has a dry sense of humor...

So do I.

My "confession" was intended mainly for entertainment.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Lest there be any misunderstanding, I had set my humor setting to "very dry". Maybe too dry it seems. A dark conspiracy was suggested so I ran with it by replying in kind.

Mariss

[martinw]

Originally Posted by MrWild I'd rather write technical manuals.

DearMrWild,

Well, I suppose that the paper I drew attention to in post #20 is a "technical manual" to some people.

Best wishes,

Martin

[Mariss Freimanis]

Please see the attached gif file. It should put things into perspective regarding what has happened to our earth in times past.

Tides we know flow and ebb every day and measure a few feet. The earth has many time scales, the kinds that take a day and the kinds that take place on a scale we cannot imagine.

The graph shows the flow and ebb of tides that measure in millions years. The Pleistocene is our current era. It is what came after the extinction of dinosaurs, our current era and about an hour on earth's scale of time.

Please interpret the graph with me. See that the amplitude of the sea-level ranges from near 300 feet higher than now and 400 feet less than now. Note the graph gets finer with time as we near the present; there are more fluctuations. This is only because there is clearer evidence of what our earth's history is.

Note the very small "H" at the right-hand side of the timeline. It is the Historical time period starting with the advent of civilization and it spans only 10,000 years.

The sea-level has risen 350 feet in the last 10,000 years. Heat-producing human activity spans less than 200 years, or only the last 1/50th of the tiny 'H' span of the graph. It is less than 1 pixel of the graph and it is of no consequence.

10,000 years ago glaciers covered the northern 1/3 of the US 2 miles deep. They melted and raised the sea. I grew up in Ohio and remember marveling at the terminal moraines the ancient glaciers left. In my imagination, I tried to see what the land looked like as they retreated. It must have been a very sad place where life could only find purchase 1 or 2 months out of the year.

Most of us live in a temperate climate and it is the same way. Life thrives for 6 months and then it dies; we call it winter. Is it natural? Not for most of earth's natural history, life has simply adapted to a harsh reality. We also have a very nice place in Hawaii we call home. Life here thrives 12 months out of the year. To me it seems like the natural order of things. Why should life have to adapt by dying every year when the more natural course is to continue uninterrupted? It makes no sense unless it is trying to hang on in a hostile environment from which it didn't originate.

The earth will warm, the remaining ice will melt and the seas will rise whether we are here or not. It is blissfully uncaring of our concerns. From the graph, the seas will rise another 300 feet before the cycle repeats in another 100,000 years. Between now and then, everywhere will become semi-tropical and life will be as it was for countless millions of years before.

Global warming alarmists cry the seas will rise 30 feet if we don't do something now. Look at the graph. What is 30 feet on it if nothing but a blip? Where do these alarmists get the arrogance to believe something done in 20 years means anything one way or the other? It doesn't even rate a single pixel. We can "do" something about it? No; we are less than fleas on an elephant.

These changes shown on the graph are monumental both in amplitude and time. We should have a little humility about where we fit in.

Mariss

[alexccmeister]

Granted. But I still would like to see new energy efficient, non polluting technology in my lifetime so I can enjoy the fresh air.

[xyzdonna]

Mariss
To state that the weather has varied a great deal in previous epochs is doubtlessly true. But that doesn't negate the possibility of human activity causing global warming. I doubt we know enough to know for sure, my guess is that it's having an effect. I really don't think all those scientists are just trying to garner research grants although some probably are. Also the folks who say it isn't happening probably have an interest in doing so as well. If only to assuage their conscience for driving a Hummer. When the best minds out there are saying it's happening you have to consider the possibility that it is.
Donna

[jhowelb]

Originally Posted by alexccmeister Granted. But I still would like to see new energy efficient, non polluting technology in my lifetime so I can enjoy the fresh air.

The processes of living (breathing, digestion, reproduction, etc.) produce pollutants no matter how large or small the organism. (You get sick from something as small as a virus) Therefore you have impractical unattainable expectations.

As far as fresh air, save your pennies and take a cruise to Hawaii.

In the mean time use YOUR money to search for a method to trap the by products of internal combustion. Build a better "mouse trap" and get rich!!

[Mariss Freimanis]

Who knows,
My "interests" are in designing electronic circuits. I'm not a part of some diabolical dark cabal intent on making the earth a steaming and polluted cesspool. What would these conspirators do? Ruin the earth, then take their profits and move to Mars?

I do have a reverence for science and reason. The barbarians have already debased the soft sciences and are now mounting their assault on the remaining hard sciences. Mathematics is next. Maybe in the future 10,000 renowned Green Mathematicians will sign a petition that 2 + 2 is no longer 4. Consensus is everything in our New Age.

Mariss