The Coming Climate Change

[alexccmeister]

Mariss,

Please don't get me wrong. I respect you as a person, as a fellow member of CNCzone and a friend in this interesting thing we call machining. But I have to ask why apart from you thinking that you will lose your earning and rights to the government if they are to impose such a regulation to control climate change, would you be so against what is being done.

Of course there are bad scientists and environmentalists but there are many more good ones who do this for the sake of mankind. As much as it is a pessimistic view some of us hold in regards to GW, but it is as much a pessimistic view you hold of these scientists, government and environmentalists. If what you believe is true of these people, we are f&*ked either way. Is that what you are saying? We are damned if we do and we are damned if we don't? I prefer to do something then just sit back. Wouldn't you?

[jhowelb]

alexccmeister, I do know your post wasn't directed to me but I must respond.

The most fearful words ever spoken; "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."

Just take a look in any Social Security or DMV office and you will see government excellence at work.

How many "good" environmental scientists do you really know and what makes you think that they are doing this for the sake of mankind?

Why must we "DO SOMETHING!"? The sky isn't falling! Chill out, we have a far greater problem to tackle in the form of Islamic radicals who want us all dead!

[martinw]

Originally Posted by MrWild There are agencies that do nothing more than pay people to come in and bombard websites with their form of propoganda. I mention this because there are a few posters with VERY high post numbers that have done nothing but posted in the Global Warming forum. I can't help but question their motives. .

Dear MrWild,

How can I become one of them?

Well, I wish I could say that I've been hanging around in underground parking lots, in the early hours, waiting for a thick brown envelope stuffed with cash from a geezer employed by those wicked oil companies.

Believe me, I need their cash.

Since you mentioned it, any chance of posting any evidence that these organised and prostituted people exist????

Read post #20, and go to page 25.

Therein you will discover the true depth of cynicism as regards the "Climate Change" debate.



Best wishes,

Martin

[alexccmeister]

Originally Posted by jhowelb alexccmeister, I do know your post wasn't directed to me but I must respond. The most fearful words ever spoken; "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you." Just take a look in any Social Security or DMV office and you will see government excellence at work. How many "good" environmental scientists do you really know and what makes you think that they are doing this for the sake of mankind? Why must we "DO SOMETHING!"? The sky isn't falling! Chill out, we have a far greater problem to tackle in the form of Islamic radicals who want us all dead!

Government everywhere is the same. Not just in the states. You try to check out the government offices where I am from. People taking their sweet time doing things. Giving looks as if they are the lord al'mighty. And believe me when I say they even cook noodles inside their closed cubicles during break time. The smell just drifts all over the office.

I agree though that the government has alot of agendas beside trying to do something good. Bush's administration (and many other around the world) is all about self interests (guns and oil). Look at the supply of food and weapons to the troops in the middle east, all belong to people in the bush admin. People like Dick Cheney should have been kicked out long ago. Bush too. Its ridiculous. This practice amounts to what we call corruption in the civilised world but its allowed to carry on.

No individual can solve the problem we are facing. And not one government can do the same. And I wouldn't even dare to suggest a way out but if we put our heads together and work as a team (not with the islamic radicals or course), I am sure we will benefit at the end of the day. As the saying goes 'good things don't come cheap'. So we need to sacrifice a little now in order to have something better in the near future. We can't be so selfish as to say "I am not going to give up what I have now for some lame ass excuse for GW".

We all want clean air, we all one less pollution, we want to have clean cheap alternative power source. That is undeniable, but if we are not willing to sacrifice a little, how can we have them at all?

[jhowelb]

No, thank you. I won't sacrifice anything just because you are sure that we will all benefit in the end.

I haven't agreed yet that there is a problem that needs attention, let alone a draconian solution.

I'm just as sure that we will never benefit from allowing thieves to pillage our pockets to stoke the larder of Algore and his ilk.

I don't trust this government let alone yours and a collection of nare do wells like the U.N. (just as one example) is the ultimate evil.

As far as Bush, Chaney et al, we quit allowing folks from across the pond choose our leaders in 1776. I'll keep them, warts and all, over the likes of Neville Chamberlain, Hugo Chavez, Jacques Chirac or Vladimir Putin.

In short, the whole issue is a load of barn litter being foisted upon us to gain power.

Not by the hair on my chiny, Chaney, chin, chin!!!

[307startup]

jhowelb...

I must agree with you. Something about the word sacrifice, with its religious undertones. Same goes for compromise. Compromise is such an easy word. So easy to say, so easy to ask for. Just not that easy to do if you're the one compromising. And it's not just the words, it's the way that it's phrased. I don't need any psycho-lingual mutterances that are intended to "train" my brain to see a different view point. I don't give two ****s for political correctness, so it's not that they aren't using the right words...it's that they aren't using words that make any sense to a person capable of working through problems and making deductions on their own. I rather like doing my own thinking thank you.

Also note that alexccmeister is from Brunei...isn't that calling the kettle black? One of the richest countries in the world...home to more supercars per capita than any other country in the world...home to more extravagant displays of wealth than anywhere else in the world. And from whence did this fortune arise? Oil of course...

I's be HEPPY to fetch da watta fo ya massa, mebbe I's can have a drink when I's done suh?

Never ask for a sacrifice you're not prepared to make yourself. In totality. Ask any soldier, sailor, airman, Coastie or Marine. I'll stake my life for a brother. Because I know a brother would stake his life for mine. As for anyone else...better you than me.

[dynosor]

Mariss & MrWild,

Before you “show me the instruments” I’d like to confess that I joined CNC Zone because of the Global Warming forum and all but 3 of my 63 posts are GW related. I don’t own or use a CNC machine, but before you write me off as a paid propaganda agent let me tell you what my goal is:

I want to provoke people into thinking for themselves so as to develop their own point of view on GW, rather than adopting the views expressed by authoritative politicians or charismatic entertainers.

I happen to think that the earth’s climate is prone to change without asking permission and that trying to prevent this is both futile and arrogant. The GW fear campaign has all the earmarks of a religion, complete with guilt, penance, sacrifice and indulgences (carbon credits). But, as I have stated in other posts, salvation is unattainable, even if we get rid of all cars and fully implement Kyoto. I think the key motivation behind the GW movement is not to save us, but rather to enslave us.

I am a mechanical engineer by training and work in inkjet printer R&D. While I love internal combustion engines, I speak for myself, not for Big Oil. I do have a manual mill and lathe at home and am attempting to build a model IC engine.

Mariss, I would like to see a list of “agent” names. Now if you are using your real name, I can see your reluctance to post this.

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis You have noticed something I completely missed... posters whose names I haven't seen anywhere else. Mariss

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis If you are right, we all may be the unwelcome recipients of an outreach program to educate us technical savages into the right way of thinking. Mariss

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis How do we know if it's true or not? ... I will compare names against posts. Any name that has even one coherent CNC-related technical post will pass. The working assumption is the purported missionaries are not technical people and wouldn't know a mill from a lathe; they live in a more spiritual realm. Mariss

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis I have no interest in "outing" or embarrassing individuals and I never would because it's unkind. I'm only interested to see if there is a trend and I'll only be doing what anyone else can if they wish. Let's see what happens. I'll tabulate the aggregate results

Originally Posted by MrWild There are agencies that do nothing more than pay people to come in and bombard websites with their form of propoganda. I mention this because there are a few posters with VERY high post numbers that have done nothing but posted in the Global Warming forum. I can't help but question their motives. You never see them give sources for the studies they quote.

[jhowelb]

In the quoted part of your post, I'll agree with you.
"Mariss" is the name he does business under, I've done business with him myself and I suspect that he will agree as well. He has a dry sense of humor and may be easily misunderstood but in all the dealings he has had with folks on the Zone he has never displayed an ounce of malice and in situatiopns where I would have come on hammer and tong.

[QUOTE=dynosor;369065]Mariss & MrWild,

........................let me tell you what my goal is:

I want to provoke people into thinking for themselves so as to develop their own point of view on GW, rather than adopting the views expressed by authoritative politicians or charismatic entertainers.

I happen to think that the earth’s climate is prone to change without asking permission and that trying to prevent this is both futile and arrogant. The GW fear campaign has all the earmarks of a religion, complete with guilt, penance, sacrifice and indulgences (carbon credits). But, as I have stated in other posts, salvation is unattainable, even if we get rid of all cars and fully implement Kyoto. I think the key motivation behind the GW movement is not to save us, but rather to enslave us.

There are indeed groups of ideologically driven folks calling talk shows and hitting any kind of "chat room" with the intent to push the "party line".

These be lunatics and need to be recognized.

[jhowelb]

stupid computer can't even spell!!!!

[alexccmeister]

Originally Posted by WYLD jhowelb... I must agree with you. Something about the word sacrifice, with its religious undertones. Same goes for compromise. Compromise is such an easy word. So easy to say, so easy to ask for. Just not that easy to do if you're the one compromising. And it's not just the words, it's the way that it's phrased. I don't need any psycho-lingual mutterances that are intended to "train" my brain to see a different view point. I don't give two ****s for political correctness, so it's not that they aren't using the right words...it's that they aren't using words that make any sense to a person capable of working through problems and making deductions on their own. I rather like doing my own thinking thank you. Also note that alexccmeister is from Brunei...isn't that calling the kettle black? One of the richest countries in the world...home to more supercars per capita than any other country in the world...home to more extravagant displays of wealth than anywhere else in the world. And from whence did this fortune arise? Oil of course... I's be HEPPY to fetch da watta fo ya massa, mebbe I's can have a drink when I's done suh? Never ask for a sacrifice you're not prepared to make yourself. In totality. Ask any soldier, sailor, airman, Coastie or Marine. I'll stake my life for a brother. Because I know a brother would stake his life for mine. As for anyone else...better you than me.

How I wish I am where you are not where I am.

Sorry my friend, Brunei is rich but the people don't own it. Its owned by a family here and thats as far as it goes. The supercars are owned by the same family. There are many poors here and too much self interests by a minority group that gives me a headache just thinking about it. I am ashamed to be even be called a Bru%$^en. Seriously.

And I am not religious at all, I am not a muslim, nor am I a christian, I am a buddist but by birth and I don't practice it as much as I should. So you don't really know me and can't judge me just because I come from a rich country and a few words that has religious connotation. Who is paranoid here?

Where I come from to insult the family is a crime punishable by jail term. Who dares to criticize? No one and those that does are outside of the country and do so under an assumed name.

But here's the difference, you live in a country that is a democracy. And you can (so to speak) pick and choose who to run for office and take care of the country and the world. I believe USA has the capability to take the lead and to be the big brother to look after the world (and I am willing to accept that simply because some governments in the east couldn't care less), but not with the people like bush who just want to reap for his benefit. You like him and people like cheney because he doesn't want to accept the kyoto protocol not because he is looking after your welfare, its because he is looking after his and his alone.

[MrWild]

[quote=Mariss Freimanis;368955]

Originally Posted by MrWild I'll be doing this for my own amusement. I have no interest in "outing" or embarrassing individuals and I never would because it's unkind. I'm only interested to see if there is a trend and I'll only be doing what anyone else can if they wish. Let's see what happens. I'll tabulate the aggregate results. Mariss

I did it four monthis ago. Like I said, I have a BS in Technical and Profesional Communication out of RIT. All profesions have their code of ethics, but many in this field are as shady as politicians. We go hand in hand you know. My findings were showing some posters with 200 to 10 post ratios of Global warming to technical forums and the posts in the tech forums were not really followed well. The only reason for my research was boredom and due to my knowing of the latest ways things are done to sway public opinion. Sadly your point of view has the most phonies pushing it.

When we push for the named studies, we will find that at a third level of ownership, the studies will actually be paid for by energy interests. This isn't some Iliminatie thing, it's just big business looking out for itself. It's what ad agencies do the best. We sway public opinion. And to really sway it well, you need Engineers saying the sciientists are full of it. Who do people believe. Scientists? HAHAHAHAHA Engineers? Oh yeah, they still speak the language.

Am I in an ad agency? No. I find manipuating public opinion reprehensible. We (I use this loosely) use psychological studies to design ways to reach, grab attention, hold the attention, and once we have it, place ideas. Once an idea has been placed, it becomes cemented and folks can have reason drilled at them intensly and it does no use. Once the idea is entrenched, it takes very little effort to keep it entrenched.

Yes I have a degree in communication, but Shakespear was never mentioned.

[MrWild]

Originally Posted by martinw Dear MrWild, How can I become one of them? Well, I wish I could say that I've been hanging around in underground parking lots, in the early hours, waiting for a thick brown envelope stuffed with cash from a geezer employed by those wicked oil companies. Believe me, I need their cash. Since you mentioned it, any chance of posting any evidence that these organised and prostituted people exist???? Best wishes, Martin

Martin,

Very easy to check. Just look up posters and view their activities. Number of posts and where they have posted are listed. Like I said, I checked four months ago and wrote a number of posters off. My senior year I took eighteen credits a quarter of senior studies.. This works out to about four semesters at a "normal" college. Some courses were true eye openers. I'm not talking like a conspiracy lunatic. As I said, it's just a fact of life. People are easily manipulated when you use the current psychological studies on what to say, how to say it, and when to say it.

Want to place a big 3' x 5' sign in your neighbors yard? Start by asking if they will put a 4" x 4" placard in their picture window. Stuck with having to give bad information in a proxy statement? Here are three ways. Put the information in a pie chart. Normally this is a very bad way to do things as a pie chart is easily understood by the human eye. Turn it into a 3D disk. Now lay it into an iso view with the bad segment to the rear. 3D allows the good information at the front to seem larger than it is and bad to the rear smaller. You say, "Things started good but have progressively gotten worse?" Change the time frame. Go most recent on the left leading to the present. People expect charts to grow. They see the chart rising, assume growth and don't look at the fine print. The best one is just bury the numbers in a spread sheet. People HATE looking at them for information. Lazy wins out.

Like I've said, I have a degree in communcation and Shakespeare was never mentioned. Yes, you can make money chatting on the internet. Designing what the drones say is a lot more money though. Not what I want to do. My senior year turned me off to that end. I'd rather write technical manuals.