The Coming Climate Change

[Mariss Freimanis]

jhowelb ,

Xyzmodanna and I come from different places. I have said I never expect to change anyone's mind with anything I write. She (he, she, it; you never know) says she expects to change people's minds. I hope she is young because then the arrogance that goes with saying that is only marginally excusable because it is an excess of youth. If it's otherwise, I despair for her.

Mariss

[jhowelb]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis jhowelb , Xyzmodanna and I come from different places. I have said I never expect to change anyone's mind with anything I write. She (he, she, it; you never know) says she expects to change people's minds. I hope she is young because then the arrogance that goes with saying that is only marginally excusable because it is an excess of youth. If it's otherwise, I despair for her. Mariss

Hammer on the nail head again, and BTW we have another eloquently spoken thinker aboard!

There may be more of us who think this way than I ever realized. You guys are making an old mans heart sing with hope for the country!

I'm flabbergasted again!

[One of Many]

Trust me, this is not just the election period attitude Martin.

We deal with these ungenerous assaults non-stop from the left on the majority of every media option available all year round. There is no need to handle this user with kid gloves. My guess is they must have testicles or they used to and would have no other reason for being here this long.

I come around here from time to time just to learn a bit from other contributors that have a better grasp on the latest GW tidbits. What I found is more of the same crap over an over again as ungenerous opinion counter to my beliefs and what I see as character assasinations in droves against what I hold dear. My poignant sarcasms are meant to evoke some sense of self reflection that everyones $h1t stinks. Constant harping between me good and you bad, then the begrudged asks for return to non-political areas of discussion then starts bash away again. Pardon me for defending the integrity of conservatives labeled by our liberal mindset multi forked tounge arrogance of xyzmedusa. Don't take me any more serious than I take myself. Opinion never hurt anyone I am told. If that were the case then the American left would have no reason to live. Tearing the legs off spiders gets old, they need fresh prey.

If I cross the line, I am man enough to take responsibilty for it and I'll stand toe to toe while doing it. Those are the risks we take for being allowed to express opinions here. When I tire of the bickering or get invited to leave via the majority, I'll mosey on out of here.

I am not so bull headed to think my ideology inside of this discussion is without fault. That at least makes me equal to the zxyMedusa rather than me taking some self inflated role of Perseus. Legend has it, seeing that face could turn you into a stoner......er was that just stoned? Maybe we should ask spouse?

DC

Originally Posted by martinw Dear Donna, People seem to be bit over-excited in the USA at the moment, what with the election and all. A lot of wild and ungenerous opinions being thrown about . Still, the same is going on Kenya... another ex-colony of England going through a process of political "choice". Best wishes, Martin

[jhowelb]

DC,

If you leave, I will miss you friend.

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by jhowelb Well, Donna, there isn't an idiot on the planet that has less that double your IQ numbers. Taxes never bennifitted an economy any more than tape worms and leaches assisted one with malnutrition. We sure as hell don't need your kind of leadership leading us into utter ruination. Nevel Chamberlain had better leader qualities. BTW, just what have you ever accomplished aside from sitting on your fat A%& and take what ever hubby handed you? You gotta be a welfare queen of some sort cause you sure don't understand the real world.

Hi jhowelb,
Spouse and I had a sign company for about 15 years, I did the graphic design. We sold it not too long ago.
xyzdonna

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by One of Many Uh, yes I did read what you said. I responded, did I not? Can you comprehend the lack of logic toward neutral? Ridiculous as it sounds, it don't work like you expect it now does it? Once exhaust is in the atmosphere, it is in the water, the land and everywhere. Not just some planted or seeded acre in the open. No consumption collects 100% of some other output. At least I am fairly certain that is what the fallacy of reaching unity in physics has taught us. You are becoming a political hack gasbag. If you want to think of it on those terms, it is not political leadership you desire. It's called a dictatorship. So what, now you view dissent of this new dictatorial leadership not within my rights? It's all a one-way street with you liberals isn't it! I didn't use the word idiot, that is your claim. There is plenty of idiocy on both sides. I'm just saying his speechwriters made him much brighter and honorable than his promises that got him elected. Kind of like making Hillary out to look like a kind hearted lady with respectable family values. Obama, I kind of like what I see on the surface, but he is too party line which goes against my moral personal beliefs and core conservative principles. His brother.... give me a break. That conspiracy is tantamount to 9/11 being an inside job Rosie. Maybe we should blame it on the liberal courts and we both take a pass? I can only imagine what the left would state in response if the tables were turned and we were the whiner/loser. Get a load of these hags that fit into your gas bag ideology! DC

Hi One of many,
My kind of ladies.
xyzdonna

[jhowelb]

Um,
THOSE "ladies" seem to prefer other "ladies".

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis OK, I think I finally get it! All we need is a little vegetable garden to grow artichokes, an algae-filled swimming pool right next to some solar powered pathway lights. We wire up the solar lights to our house wiring, sell the excess power on the grid, make thousands of gallons of bio-diesel for the F-350 from the pool algae and more thousands of gallons of artichoke ethanol for the old family Prius (or do we hook that up to the pathway lights?). The cornucopia of excess we sell at a gas station we put up on the front lawn. We all retire as millionaires from the profits! Xyzmadonna, I gotta hand it to you! You have finally converted me. How could I have been so stupid? All these wonderful ideas, developed by dedicated wire-rimmed glasses wearing, NPR listening, pony-tailed vegan scientists just lying around and all of us just too uneducated to see the green Nirvana or being offered. With those kind of spectacular yields there is probably even enough room in the garden for a Cannabis plant or two (medicinal purposes only). Gosh; all this time we've been burning all that nasty coal and oil when the very answer has been right under our nose! We have even toyed with nuclear power as an answer. How dumb we have been! You are a saint and a missionary; you have cast light into the shadows of my dark world and now I can finally see. Just a little garden, a slimed pool and some pathway lights. What an epiphany! Mariss

That's funny Mariss,
No, I'm afraid I'll never be able to convince you or Geof. The only thing to do is let it happen and then ya'll can see the results. Time will tell. I'm just pointing out that if they could develop cheap, efficient photobioreactors the current yields of about 5,000 gal/acre/year start to make sense. Especially if you're driving a vehicle that gets 50 mpg. Multiply 50 x 5,000 to get 250,000 miles/acre. One acre could provide 1 vehicle about 20 years of driving. The numbers are there. It's just going to take a little engineering.
xyzdonna

[Mariss Freimanis]

Shotout,

An excellent and well thought-out reply. You start out with idealism vs. realism. Idealism is something all well-meaning people start out with. Stalin for example was enrolled as a monk in a monastery as a youth. Realism is what you is you develop after you no longer are a child.

Realism is what forms your life after you discover what you thought was life doesn't match your early expectations. Different people deal with that realization in different ways. We all know how Stalin dealt with it:-)

For normal people the dissonance is handled by retaining the original innate a sense of what is right but have balanced and protected it against those who would take advantage of it. Idealists keep their hearts purer than cynics.

Socialism and communism have always flown into the face of human nature. Communism sprung from a Utopian vision of humanity that simply does not exist. That it lasted 70 years is a testimony to that vision, wrong as it may be. It and socialism believed that human nature is to serve other people. They were wrong because that is not our nature as human beings.

As human beings our nature is to serve ourselves first. Any system of governance that believes otherwise quickly degenerates into corruption. The why is very simple. Socialism and Communism expects people to be what they are not. Once you are in power having sold the theory, you are beholden to it. The only way you can prop it up is to degenerate into wholesale intimidation and corruption because the theory itself cannot hold. The consequence is moral rot. That is what happened to the Soviet Union from Lenin to Gorbachev and the 30 million souls murdered between those two fine bookends.

Modern liberalism has its roots sunk into that same blood-stained earth and it draws its sustenance from it. Of course it hates "fat cats" and the like. Socialism is all about hating those who achieve. It is envy of the worst kind which does not strive to emulate the successful but rather wishes to bring them down. It cannot allow someone who strives and works and sacrifices to achieve. Socialists and Liberals cannot allow that. They believe everyone is cog wheel in the machinery of their Utopian machine. Individuals, the ones that are creative and work their rear ends off do not fit in their perfect worker's world.

What we have here is a struggle. Are you an ant or bee that will be drawn into the socialist liberal wet-dream of a perfect hive or anthill or will you remain free the way you were born? For me, the decision I made was long ago. I am an individual, I am not like anyone else, I will not submit myself to to the cookie cutter people.:-)

Mariss

[jhowelb]

You aren't really named Donna are you? Your really named Dorothy and you are freshly back from Oz, admit it!

Schezzzz...ya gotta be smokin bad stuff.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Xyzmodonna,

Sure, OK... Yawn. I'm sure you are right. Yawn.. I'll make sure I'm here to see the golden age you promise.. Yawn,.. Artichokes right? I just want to know I got that right before I nod off. Algae, artichokes,.. algae, artichokes,.. OK, I'm asleep now...

Hey, Wow! I just snapped awake. Hey xyzdonna. How did you wind up on this forum? May I assume you have an intense interest in CNC machines? I'm just guessing from your "xyz" prefix. XYZ, the 3 ordinal axis. I bet that is what made you come here. Can you please share with us your CNC interests? There must be more to you than "Bush is an idiot" and "loser Hillary for Prez". Come on, this is a CNC forum, tell us what machine you have, what you do, what your experiences are regarding CNC. I'd love to hear from someone who is savy enough to comment on my work. Come on, XYZ (may I call you that?) tell us what you are doing, CNC-wise. Eager to hear!!

Mariss

Mariss

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis DC, I try to see things as they are. The great movement that shaped the 20th century was a power grab over the individual by the collective. The "collective" went by many names; the communists were the most honest because they laid their goals out in the open regarding the subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the masses (their word). Mainline Socialists were a little more circumspect but still transparent to close inspection regarding the unpleasant consequences to an individual. The fall of world communism coincided with the rise of the green movement. This is not surprising if you see it as the former morphing into the latter. One just simply changed names. The goal has remained the same though, extinguishing and eliminating individualism in human beings. Let's call the current movement liberalism in it's present form and manifistation. Why is it liberals fear and hate individualism? It is because these are the people least susceptible to being controlled and for that they are loose cannons. These people think and they mock and they are free. Remember, it's a power grab and those grabbing power don't want any resistance. There is a twisted aspect to humanity that causes some to want domination over human beings. Where this comes from I don't know except to say it's universal to those that get into the position to have power over others. Hitler did, Stalin did, Pol Pot did, Hillary does and liberals in general certainly do. One can argue that civilization depends on collective cooperation and action while individualists are destructive because they are loners and therefor unreliable and dangerous. The problem with that argument is nothing creative ever comes from the collective, after all they are gentle sheep going with the program. Maddening to collectivists is fresh ideas only flow from individualists; Newton, Copernicus, Einstein, etc. So how does the modern movement work? It preys on the superstitions and fears of the average person. This is far more sophisticated than the old communist method of intimidation. People by nature worry; let's give them something to worry about. Take your pick: Global Warming: The earth is going to melt into a lava pool because of what you are doing! Environment: You are screwing up the entire world because of what you are doing! Cute little animals are dying because of you! Greed: Do you realize people are starving elsewhere while you are eating yourself silly? It's wrong you have so much while others have so little! The first part is to make you feel guilty about living your life as you see fit. The second part is to offer you a way to wash your sins away once you buy into the first part. This is the clever part; it offers something you can do personally; recycle your beer bottles, drive a Prius, use CFL light bulbs in your house. Now you have done something to atone for your sins. That makes you a believer and buys you equity into something you never consciously purchased . Clever indeed. It's all about power. It's all about having you bend and submitting to someone else's power. It's about turning you into sheep. Do you notice the solution to correcting what's purportedly wrong is money, specifically your money. Carbon offsets, tax incentives for alternate energy sources, recycling fees. Your money and your bondage. The people over you are no more special than you are. They hold no special power or knowledge over you. You were born as a free and individual human being. Do not give away what you were were born with. That is what I believe in. What shapes us now is the current century. The powers that want to extinguish individualism are just as strong as they were in the last cruel century. The glove is velvet now and the user promises to leave no bruises. The marks it leaves though are just as livid no matter how gently applied. Modern liberalism has it's roots embedded in communistic idealism. It is what they believe in when the day is done. They cannot wash their hands of it no matter how hard they try. They spat on the returning soldiers from Vietnam and they still call president Bush an idiot today. It's a little like being in the Mafia but saying your hands are clean because you didn't go with the whole program. Mariss

Hi Mariss,
Very eloquent statement of your conservative beliefs, but unfortunately eloquence doesn't equal reality. I'll just use myself as an example, I suppose I can't speak for all liberals.

Mariss: I try to see things as they are. The great movement that shaped the 20th century was a power grab over the individual by the collective. The "collective" went by many names; the communists were the most honest because they laid their goals out in the open regarding the subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the masses (their word). Mainline Socialists were a little more circumspect but still transparent to close inspection regarding the unpleasant consequences to an individual.

The fall of world communism coincided with the rise of the green movement. This is not surprising if you see it as the former morphing into the latter. One just simply changed names. The goal has remained the same though, extinguishing and eliminating individualism in human beings. Let's call the current movement liberalism in it's present form and manifistation.

Me: Quite a stretch don't you think, that liberalism is just replacement for failed communism? I as a liberal have no desire to subjugate the individual, to enslave the masses with my agenda. We're in a different time now though. The planet is getting hotter, we're reaching the end point of what this planet can sustain population wise. Should it be that global warming is proven wrong, you're still going to have the population time bomb to contend with. The days of cowboy conservatism are over, we have no right do as we please and trash the planet, we have future generations to thing about. The way we will work ourselves out of this mess is for enlightened individuals, who lucidly see things as they are, to develop solutions.

Mariss: Why is it liberals fear and hate individualism? It is because these are the people least susceptible to being controlled and for that they are loose cannons. These people think and they mock and they are free. Remember, it's a power grab and those grabbing power don't want any resistance. There is a twisted aspect to humanity that causes some to want domination over human beings. Where this comes from I don't know except to say it's universal to those that get into the position to have power over others. Hitler did, Stalin did, Pol Pot did, Hillary does and liberals in general certainly do.

Me: Actually, I exalt individualism. I applaud the inventor, engineer, scientist who invents something or makes things happen. These things will occur in a liberal run society as well. Yes we had some defining social experiments in the last century and more will come in this century as well. Communism failed for the most part, although I'm sure some elements of it were successful. But don't read into that statement a proof of your point that communism morphed into liberalism. You have to have political leaders, and these leaders must have a vision for where we are going and what it takes to get there. Otherwise you end up where we are now. In a morass in Iraq, the economy is about to tank due to massive deficit spending, the value of the dollar down by about a third, all as a result of your conservative leadership. We spend more for health care than any nation on earth and yet millions aren't covered. In fact, many can't even purchase health care at any price. These are facts I mention, not philosophical ponderings about liberalism rising from the ashes of communism.

Mariss:One can argue that civilization depends on collective cooperation and action while individualists are destructive because they are loners and therefor unreliable and dangerous. The problem with that argument is nothing creative ever comes from the collective, after all they are gentle sheep going with the program. Maddening to collectivists is fresh ideas only flow from individualists; Newton, Copernicus, Einstein, etc.

So how does the modern movement work? It preys on the superstitions and fears of the average person. This is far more sophisticated than the old communist method of intimidation. People by nature worry; let's give them something to worry about. Take your pick:
Global Warming: The earth is going to melt into a lava pool because of what you are doing!

Environment: You are screwing up the entire world because of what you are doing! Cute little animals are dying because of you!

Greed: Do you realize people are starving elsewhere while you are eating yourself silly? It's wrong you have so much while others have so little!

Me: Let's analyze this argument because I think it gets to the crux of the matter. The oldest trick in the book is to come up with a bogey man to rouse the rabble and then fleece them. Did you see the musical "The Music Man"? "We got trouble in river city, gotta get those kids out of the pool halls, let them play trombones". He was a good trombone salesman alright.
For my part I don't think it's our job to help some developing nation that is overpopulating itself and starving as a result. The environment, that's another matter. That is a real problem and conservatives are in denial. Every single conservative on this list is dead set against any limitations that will help the environment. It's rather like a strange religion that won't accept any conditions because it's a limit to individuality. Therefore they deny the problem exists so as not face these limitations. The problems are there, they are real, and they aren't going away unless we make them go away. I think this is more of a psychological problem with conservatives, they really don't want to "know the truth". Just like the developing nation that is overpopulating and starving, the US is polluting the environment far out of proportion to any other nation on earth. It must stop. Anyone who can't see this is deliberately (subconsciously perhaps) hiding from reality.

Mariss:Modern liberalism has it's roots embedded in communistic idealism. It is what they believe in when the day is done. They cannot wash their hands of it no matter how hard they try. They spat on the returning soldiers from Vietnam and they still call president Bush an idiot today. It's a little like being in the Mafia but saying your hands are clean because you didn't go with the whole program.

Me: I never spat on or showed disrespect for any soldier. It was never their fault, it was their leaders. But me calling Bush an idiot is only a polite term for what I really feel about his proactive stupidity and incompetence! But again, your effort to equate liberalism with failed communism is completely off the mark. We've been in business, self-employed for years, perfectly happy capitalists. It's just that I don't have blinders on, I'm not fabricating a world that doesn't exist like my right wing Christian conservative friends do. They ride around with bumper stickers that say their SUV will be unmanned during the rapture. Non religious conservatives like yourself are doing the same thing. Fabricating a make believe world that you would like to have so as not to have to face the reality of what is. You must come to realize that this may be more of a psychological problem than a political one.

xyzdonna