The Coming Climate Change

[jhowelb]

DC, You have unearthed evidence that voluntarily draws a direct link between liberals, socialists and Democrats!

Do you know how valuable that is?!!

[One of Many]

Yes, and the tell-tale rainbow scarf says it all! Most certainly Anti-Bush is a misnomer!

DC

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis OK, I think I finally get it! All we need is a little vegetable garden to grow artichokes,...etc, etc, etc, ..Mariss

Mariss stop it!! Please!! You are making me feel inferior. I could never come up with a comparable response.

Mind you I do have the acre or more, 1.53 to be exact so if I deduct the area needed for the house, driveway and a bit of a yard to sit and drink beer in (that is if I can find any) I should be able to fuel my Land Rover (if I had a Land Rover) to be able to drive to work (just over 1-1/2 miles away) and still have a bit left over for taking a road trip for a vacation.

P.S. The artichokes I find attractive; pickled along with some nice Brie and a cool, but not too cool, bottle of Shiraz.

[martinw]

Dear Donna,

People seem to be bit over-excited in the USA at the moment, what with the election and all. A lot of wild and ungenerous opinions being thrown about . Still, the same is going on Kenya... another ex-colony of England going through a process of political "choice".

Best wishes,

Martin

[Geof]

Originally Posted by martinw ....People seem to be bit over-excited in the USA at the moment.....the same is going on Kenya... another ex-colony of England going through a process of political "choice".....Martin

And I thought I was capable of injudicious comment.!!!!!!!!!!!!

I recognise a master. (And where is the emoticon which depicts me taking my hat off to you?)

[jhowelb]

Yup! That Martin is a real firebrand, but we love the flavor he brings to this pot.
If you all think that this is a bit over-excited, wait till you start taking things away from all these "spoiled brat" Americans.

The kids down in the "barrio" will fillet the likes of Donna and feed her to the rats. Taking away their tortillas and Chevy Vans...............ummmmmmmmm. NOT me!

[Mariss Freimanis]

DC,

I try to see things as they are. The great movement that shaped the 20th century was a power grab over the individual by the collective. The "collective" went by many names; the communists were the most honest because they laid their goals out in the open regarding the subjugation of the individual for the benefit of the masses (their word). Mainline Socialists were a little more circumspect but still transparent to close inspection regarding the unpleasant consequences to an individual.

The fall of world communism coincided with the rise of the green movement. This is not surprising if you see it as the former morphing into the latter. One just simply changed names. The goal has remained the same though, extinguishing and eliminating individualism in human beings. Let's call the current movement liberalism in it's present form and manifistation.

Why is it liberals fear and hate individualism? It is because these are the people least susceptible to being controlled and for that they are loose cannons. These people think and they mock and they are free. Remember, it's a power grab and those grabbing power don't want any resistance. There is a twisted aspect to humanity that causes some to want domination over human beings. Where this comes from I don't know except to say it's universal to those that get into the position to have power over others. Hitler did, Stalin did, Pol Pot did, Hillary does and liberals in general certainly do.

One can argue that civilization depends on collective cooperation and action while individualists are destructive because they are loners and therefor unreliable and dangerous. The problem with that argument is nothing creative ever comes from the collective, after all they are gentle sheep going with the program. Maddening to collectivists is fresh ideas only flow from individualists; Newton, Copernicus, Einstein, etc.

So how does the modern movement work? It preys on the superstitions and fears of the average person. This is far more sophisticated than the old communist method of intimidation. People by nature worry; let's give them something to worry about. Take your pick:

Global Warming: The earth is going to melt into a lava pool because of what you are doing!

Environment: You are screwing up the entire world because of what you are doing! Cute little animals are dying because of you!

Greed: Do you realize people are starving elsewhere while you are eating yourself silly? It's wrong you have so much while others have so little!

The first part is to make you feel guilty about living your life as you see fit. The second part is to offer you a way to wash your sins away once you buy into the first part. This is the clever part; it offers something you can do personally; recycle your beer bottles, drive a Prius, use CFL light bulbs in your house. Now you have done something to atone for your sins. That makes you a believer and buys you equity into something you never consciously purchased . Clever indeed.

It's all about power. It's all about having you bend and submitting to someone else's power. It's about turning you into sheep. Do you notice the solution to correcting what's purportedly wrong is money, specifically your money. Carbon offsets, tax incentives for alternate energy sources, recycling fees. Your money and your bondage.

The people over you are no more special than you are. They hold no special power or knowledge over you. You were born as a free and individual human being. Do not give away what you were were born with. That is what I believe in.

What shapes us now is the current century. The powers that want to extinguish individualism are just as strong as they were in the last cruel century. The glove is velvet now and the user promises to leave no bruises. The marks it leaves though are just as livid no matter how gently applied.

Modern liberalism has it's roots embedded in communistic idealism. It is what they believe in when the day is done. They cannot wash their hands of it no matter how hard they try. They spat on the returning soldiers from Vietnam and they still call president Bush an idiot today. It's a little like being in the Mafia but saying your hands are clean because you didn't go with the whole program.

Mariss

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis .... recycle your beer bottles, drive a Prius, use CFL light bulbs in your house. Now you have done something to atone for your sins. That makes you a believer and buys you equity into something you never consciously purchased . Clever indeed.....

So where do I fit? I don't drive a Prius but I do recycle beer bottles...I have to, I would be buried in them if I didn't. And there are three incandescent bulbs in my house and workshop out of a total of around fifty or so; all the rest are compact fluorescent. And, obviously, I prefer beer over wine so I cannot be a liberal. Oh dear, I don't fit anywhere.

[jhowelb]

Hallelujah Mariss,

There is someone who knows what I know! You have an ability and the courage to say it here where I would fear being misunderstood.

Of course, you know that Donna and ilk won't even look at those words. Like Dracula shrinking from a cross. She will launch into a volley of crap like a broadside from USS Missouri.

Hats off to you, sir and many cheers. Any THINKING person will see and recognize the truth!

[jhowelb]

Originally Posted by Geof So where do I fit? I don't drive a Prius but I do recycle beer bottles...I have to, I would be buried in them if I didn't. And there are three incandescent bulbs in my house and workshop out of a total of around fifty or so; all the rest are compact fluorescent. And, obviously, I prefer beer over wine so I cannot be a liberal. Oh dear, I don't fit anywhere.

Relax Geof, we can care about our environment and still have both eyes open.

Besides, there is something to be said for not fitting in. Called rugged individualism!

[Mariss Freimanis]

Geof,

What you have there is a real quandry. I hope you find some way to clear it and center yourself again.:-) By the way, white or red? If red, Cabernet Sauvignon by any chance? Reserve preferably. My poison of choice.

Mariss

[Shotout]

Mariss your points got me to thinking a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't it all boil down to realism vs. idealism?

Socialism is a wonderful ideal, however it has always seemed to end up as a reactionary system that becomes more about saving the privileges for the elite, correct thinking, people that deem themselves as more important than the rest of society and thus spirals downward into decay and decadence. As as been pointed out in this forum the green movement's poster people are very much do as I say not as I do. I'm already very grateful not to get the amount of government that I am currently paying for, the thought of adding more layers of taxation and bureaucracy on top of that is honestly frighting to me. The idealist thinks that society will benefit from more regulation, but IMO the real results are other than.

Conservatives on the other hand are now embracing wise use policies, recycling, replanting, etc while still trying to make progress. Politics aside, a hard thing to do as this has become more a political issue than an environmental one, the average "rich fat cat" that is so hated by the liberals is looking into increasing his profit by conserving more and recycling his wastes as much as is reasonable possible. Doesn't this create jobs and protect the environment? Engineers and architects design recycling plants, construction crews build them, equipment manufactures tool them and local people staff them, just a single example. Isn't this more of a bonus to society as a whole than trying to use imagined taxes to fund more bureaucracy that, and let's be honest, tends to end up being more a empire building and money taking game than a positive impact on society?

Major corporations are paving the way on efficient buildings that utilize features, just to name a few, such as on site gray water recycling, solar lighting and heating, energy efficient lighting; air conditioning even geo-thermal air conditioning utilizing temperature differentials between ground and air. These are all suppose to be good stewardship practices, lessening their footprint as the term is now, that equal a monetary savings for the company aside from carbon offsets. One of the reasons, btw, that I am for a market driven approach on the energy cost crisis. And lets be even more honest, the only energy crisis we face in the western world is one of cost, not through scarcity but mostly through profiteering. All these technological wonders took a wage earner to think up, R&D, prototype, test, produce, market, install and operate. The only extra tax is the taxes on earnings created by realistic thinking and implementation.

I see this as a hopeless issue. It will never be "resolved" until the idealist and politicians take their hands off of it, which will never happen so ipso facto... Why some people think the upcoming US elections will help the situation is beyond me. When you get down to it you can have a rich "oil barren" like Bush in office, or an equally rich "ivory tower elitist" in office, the results will continue to be the rich getting richer and the wage earner working hard to keep from back sliding.

s