The Coming Climate Change

[Geof]

What on earth is an "Atkinson Cycle" engine and how does it differ from an Otto Cycle?

[307startup]

Geof...here are a few of the "interesting" take offs on the spark-ignition internal combustion engine...

http://www.answers.com/topic/atkinson-cycle

http://www.answers.com/Miller%20cycle

http://www.me.berkeley.edu/cal/HCCI/

[Geof]

Originally Posted by WYLD Geof...here are a few of the "interesting" take offs on the spark-ignition internal combustion engine...

Thanks WYLD. I know the mechanism from way back but didn't know it was called Atkinson.

[MrWild]

Originally Posted by Bluesman And man will not destroy it nor will "Mother Nature" GOD will destroy this earth and all the evil that is in it. The best you can do for your childern is to teach them how to get saved and then when the rapture comes they will be lucky enough to be spared from all the nasty stuff that GOD has planed for mankind. Bluesman

Pirates to the rescue.

My god, the FSM has touched me with his noodly appendage and I have been healed. Global warming is really a matter of not enough pirates. It is a fact that as pirate numbers have diminished, world temperatures have gone up.

Every night I clasp my hands and ask the noodly one for another day of annointed olive oil and garlic. Then I say, "Ramen" in ending and shut my eyes for a great nights sleep.

Don't forget to talk like a pirate. You too can help avert global warming.


Silly me, to think CO2 has nothing to do with it, and it's just a pissed off invisible friend after all. Why, I'm powerless to do a thing. Glad I have a clear concience that I'm not screwing my children's futures.

[dynosor]

Originally Posted by grinderdust I also happen to drive a Prius....which might just save you some money on gas,...

How far do you have to drive a Prius before you break even with the equivalent non-hybrid Corrola or Yaris model and start "saving money"?

[the4thseal]

to hell and back :-)'

[MrWild]

I had to read this entire two pages to come up to full speed. Everyone seems to have locked into their own arguments and no longer are swayed one way or another. A prius on the face looks like a great way to go. Less visible polution, so it has to be right, right? Hmmm. Charge the batteries with electricity, where does it come from? How is it made? How efficiently is it made? BTU to BTU, the Prius isn't all that efficient. Heat losses for the steam, line losses, transformer losses... Unless it is derived from Nuclear energy, CO2 and other bad elements are tossed into the air. Acid rain anyone? Ever go east and see the damaged forests from the acid rain? A Prius is on par with Fuel cells. Different way to store energy, not really all that efficient when all things are considered.

Mariss, Global warming is happening. Its sad that so much bad science preceeded it, and that there is such a huge movement to naysay it. My degree is one in subterfuge. There are agencies that do nothing more than pay people to come in and bombard websites with their form of propoganda. I mention this because there are a few posters with VERY high post numbers that have done nothing but posted in the Global Warming forum. I can't help but question their motives. You never see them give sources for the studies they quote.

My respect keeps going up for you when I read you pay your workers not just a living wage, but a wage they can hold their heads up like men and women. I just don't agree with your views on this issue. Your ROHR(?) compliance argument is a good one but falls short whn you say landfills are filling with broken electronics. Long before they break they become obsolete, and we seem to always want the newest, flashiest gizmo out there. I don't see broken, I see old, and old isn 't even old anymore.

What is hurting us more than anything else is the rampant consumerism we have embraced. It fuels the enegy needs, it fuels the polution from manufacture, it causes more grief than good.

[grinderdust]

Dynosor, I don't know how much a yaris or corolla costs, but I will try to shed some light on your question. I'm assuming by break even you mean make up the difference between the price of the cars. Since I was in the market for a car anyways and the prius is not what I would call an expensive car, I started saving money the first time I drove past a gas station. My winter car, a '98 Outback wagon, cost alot more new than the prius so everything is relative. It also should be noted that the prius is a top quality, safe ride and has a very high resale value. This car also really puts out when driven hard because it is always in the right gear. It never lugs when you floor it.

Last time I filled up, gas was $3.18 a gallon. Assuming gas stays at that price (which it won't) at 46 mpg (my real and verified lifetime average for the prius, driving hard) It will take 2,174 gallons of fuel to go 100,000 miles and cost $6,913. If your car averages 25 mpg in the real world (which is a stretch even for a honda believe me I know) it will take 4000 gallons of fuel and cost you $12,720. Since my prius will soon round the 100,000 mile mark I have saved about $5,807 on the cost of the fuel alone. It is my belief that the environmental savings is worth much more. The impact of manufacturing, shipping, storing and burning nearly 2000 gallons of fuel is much more than making and disposing of the batteries. In a couple of years I will trade up for the next generation prius and enjoy even better fuel economy and power thanks to the lithium ion batteries they are planning to use. The new batteries will also be easier on the environment.

MrWild, The prius does not get its power from a plug. It uses it's own kinetic energy by using a generator to slow the car and store energy that would otherwise be wasted on friction brakes. It also shuts off the engine when you take your foot off the gas, and uses a thermos to bottle hot coolant and keeep the engine warmed up for less emissions.

A Prius is on par with Fuel cells. Different way to store energy, not really all that efficient when all things are considered.

When all things are considered it is about the most efficient option available at this time. If there is something better I would love to drive it so please let me know.

What is hurting us more than anything else is the rampant consumerism we have embraced. It fuels the enegy needs, it fuels the polution from manufacture, it causes more grief than good.

I couldn't agree more. If everyone only used what they needed, we wouldn't have such a mess. Also manufacturers should be held responsible for the end life disposal of the products they make. Plastic is great but it's permanent, and should not be used to make goods that are used once and tossed. It is also not as recyclable as some people think. I also agree with what you are saying to Mariss. Lead in the workplace and in the environment is not a good thing and the laws may be hurting his wallet but It may improve the health of his employees, which is priceless. I believe the technology will catch up and may just lead to a better process in the end. The only thing that puzzles me is that they use a ton of lead making car batteries and such so why is that not a big deal? Why pick on one industry and not the other? The only reason I can see is because you absolutely can't make a lead acid battery without the lead. Electronics on the other hand seem to be pretty reliable without the lead, even if it costs a little more to manufacture.

I apologize to everyone for hijacking this thread. It all started with one little post. I guess If I have to defend my decision to buy a hybrid car, recycle and reduce waste, and live a clean life that my children may learn and appreciate, I will.

[the4thseal]

where is the episode on the prius of south park when you need it. by the way, 10000 mile already! how long is your commute?

[Mariss Freimanis]

[QUOTE=MrWild;368694]There are agencies that do nothing more than pay people to come in and bombard websites with their form of propoganda. I mention this because there are a few posters with VERY high post numbers that have done nothing but posted in the Global Warming forum. I can't help but question their motives.

MrWild,

You are brilliant! You have noticed something I completely missed. Something smelled funny here but you put the finger on it; posters whose names I haven't seen anywhere else. You were the one to notice it.

If you are right, we all may be the unwelcome recipients of an outreach program to educate us technical savages into the right way of thinking. Think of it as a Mission Outpost erected amongst the heathen to attend to their global warming spiritual needs.

How do we know if it's true or not? We do research! The holiday weekend is coming up and I just set a mission for myself. I will compare names against posts. Any name that has even one coherent CNC-related technical post will pass. The working assumption is the purported missionaries are not technical people and wouldn't know a mill from a lathe; they live in a more spiritual realm.

I'll be doing this for my own amusement. I have no interest in "outing" or embarrassing individuals and I never would because it's unkind. I'm only interested to see if there is a trend and I'll only be doing what anyone else can if they wish.

Let's see what happens. I'll tabulate the aggregate results.

Mariss

[grinderdust]

4thseal, It's not so much the commute,my office is at the bottom of my stairs. It's the field work. I drive all over five counties doing real estate appraisal. And to think I gave up the predictable gloom of a cozy machine shop for this! More money = more stress.

[the4thseal]

i live in s cal and i thought i drive great deal.i hope you have a nice stereo!