Sierra Club hits home

[Shotout]

Your point on timing is a good one. I'd think since the carriers and the remaining subs are still nuke powered knowledgeable people should be steadily rotating out for approximately 30 years after the last graduating class from the Naval Academy. The problem will be that the greenies are trying to make that sooner rather than later.

I didn't think you where being too critical, I took it as devil's advocate which is why I read these types of forums. It expands my perceptions after all I apologize if my language seemed otherwise.

What you said about the long term view is an excellent point.

I honestly don't believe that the US gov't could get it's act together enough to be effective in spurring on the effort required to get things rolling until things get truly desperate and then it will be playing catch up rather than a progressive move to ensure our future. And as you said it won't be private industry alone doing so. I don't know enough about Canada's political situation but I'd imagine it is a similar problem there.

Soon or later it will catch up with us. The problem is getting the green faction to see this, something I'm not to optimistic about. If it wasn't for their posturing on the issue then there would be no real bar to the issue. Most people would accept the idea if they could be educated properly on the issue without the emotional and often inaccurate posturing of the green movement. You'd still have the not in my back yard problem, but it wouldn't be the impossibility it is now. I mean lets get real, many of the more over the top groups say that humans are a parasite and should be exterminated, with there selves excluded of course since they are "proper stewards of the environment". No wonder people are confused on the issues and can't reach a consensus.

This is a... <SNIP>

[Geof]

...I honestly don't believe that the US gov't could get it's act together enough to be effective....

Soon or later it will catch up with us...

...The problem is getting the green faction to see this, something I'm not to optimistic about...

As one parasite to another

Neither will the Canadian Govt.

Yes things will catch up but I think things will have got very desperate before then.

'not to optimistic' Is this a euphemism for "I don' think there is a chance in hell".

Here are a couple of books to read:

"Collapse: Or Why Societies Choose To Fail" by Jared Diamond.

"Catastrophe: An Investigation into the Origins of the Modern World" by David Keys.

Not directly applicable but they give an insight into how humans both individually and as societies don't take corrective action until it is too late, if ever. In particular note Diamond's comments about Australia and compare them with some recent reports about changing water use allocations there.

[Shotout]

"'not to optimistic' Is this a euphemism for "I don' think there is a chance in hell". "

Pretty much

"Here are a couple of books to read:

"Collapse: Or Why Societies Choose To Fail" by Jared Diamond.

"Catastrophe: An Investigation into the Origins of the Modern World" by David Keys."

I'll check them out. I find it very frustrating to try and understand people and even my old shrink clients when I was shoeing couldn't make me understand why people simply accept changable conditions etc, sort of like the US political system. the first one ecspecially sounds like it would be up my alley, since I often say something of the like very often. Needless to say I often find life very frustrating maybe why I've always worked with animals up until I couldn't.

[Geof]

...I find it very frustrating to try and understand people....

Take my approach. Anticipate that 90% of the time people will do the stupid thing and you will find you are wrong only 10% of the time. You do not need to understand behaviour if you can predict it correctly most of the time.

It is kind of like Quantum Mechanics. Few, if any, Phycisists truly understand it but because it can be used to predict behaviour it doesn't need to be understood; it just works.

Now I will duck to avoid the Phycisists.

[Shotout]

Take my approach. Anticipate that 90% of the time people will do the stupid thing and you will find you are wrong only 10% of the time. You do not need to understand behaviour if you can predict it correctly most of the time.

It is kind of like Quantum Mechanics. Few, if any, Phycisists truly understand it but because it can be used to predict behaviour it doesn't need to be understood; it just works.

Now I will duck to avoid the Phycisists.

Probably good advice. Oh God, horror of horrors, that means Hillary will be our next president!

[sdantonio]

It is kind of like Quantum Mechanics. Few, if any, Phycisists truly understand it but because it can be used to predict behaviour it doesn't need to be understood; it just works.

Now I will duck to avoid the Phycisists.

No reason to duck there

[sdantonio]

Probably good advice. Oh God, horror of horrors, that means Hillary will be our next president!

could be worse, we could get B Hussein Obama. But I thing were dealing with the 8th and 9th levels of hell respectively.

You familiar with the writings of HP Lovecraft? "Vote for Cuthulu, why settle for the lesser of two evils".

[Shotout]

could be worse, we could get B Hussein Obama. But I thing were dealing with the 8th and 9th levels of hell respectively.

You familiar with the writings of HP Lovecraft? "Vote for Cuthulu, why settle for the lesser of two evils".

Talk about a flashback!!!!!!

[Wade]

I predict things will just keep on, going on. Gas will keep going up, people in the south won't be able to afford to run their airconditioners. People in the north will struggle to pay their heating bill. But, the first time the lights go out, the unwashed masses will demand action (ref: California Rolling Blackouts). And, people will become more creative. Amazing what people can do, when their faced with a problem.

They'll talk about CO2 emission reductions, and they'll talk about renewables, but when it comes right down to it, even under the worst dooms day scenerio, most of use are too old to worry about it effecting us very much. If your really worried about it, get a head start, move to upper Alaska. Personally, I find it hard to understand what's so bad about Global Warming.

As for the expertise to build a Nuke plant. When money is on the line, we will find a way to get it done. Remember the first Nuke boom, and then the pipeline boom, people who didn't have a clue what a Nuke Plant ran on where building parts for them.

[sdantonio]

Heard another good one last night on the news as well as a somewhat dire prediction.

The prediction:

Within the year China will eclipse the US and the largest producer of greenhouse gasses in the world of any industrialized country. The pressure is off of us, now lets see if the Sierra Club and Greenpeace let up on the US and start going after China.

The good one:

Remember the cows and their little methane factories. Well, the largest producer of methane in aisa is... you guessed it, rotting vegitation in rice paddies.


But the hunt continues for even bigger sources of flatulence (Washington maybe?, oh wait, that's just hot air).

[Wade]

The greenies already have an answer to china being the largest greenhouse gas producer. They switched to tons of carbondioxide per person a while back. Since their population is 4 times as big as ours, their 1/4 as polluting as the US is. Just be prepared to be the worst country in the world, no matter what we do.

[sdantonio]

The greenies already have an answer to china being the largest greenhouse gas producer. They switched to tons of carbondioxide per person a while back. Since their population is 4 times as big as ours, their 1/4 as polluting as the US is. Just be prepared to be the worst country in the world, no matter what we do.

Ah, that would explaine the origins of the "carbon footprint" campaigne. Fiendishly clever these greenies.