Most Important Greenhouse Gases

[jhowelb]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis The last new refinery in the US was built over 20 years ago though the demand for refined fuels has certainly grown in the interim. The utopians (greens, enviros, the professionally outraged) have put enough obstacles into the gears of progress to prevent even the planning of new refineries. Politicians cater to these obstructionists because they are onboard with the other aspects of the leftist agenda. It is a coalition of unrelated causes and special interests that unfortunately insists on being treated as a single package. This is dangerous to us all. It prevents separating out elements clearly acting against our common good and dealing with actual problems in a rational manner. This poorly thought out policy will come home to roost one day soon. We will be forced to eventually synchronize with hard reality and the immutable laws of nature; the process will be wrenching. Screw with our energy supply, defense, infrastructure and business today, freeze, become enslaved, live in a mud hut and be penniless tomorrow. Mariss

Unfortunately, by that time even "revolution ringing in the streets" probably won't be able to reverse the loss of freedoms accrued in the interim.

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis The last new refinery in the US was built over 20 years ago though the demand for refined fuels has certainly grown in the interim. The utopians (greens, enviros, the professionally outraged) have put enough obstacles into the gears of progress to prevent even the planning of new refineries. Politicians cater to these obstructionists because they are onboard with the other aspects of the leftist agenda. It is a coalition of unrelated causes and special interests that unfortunately insists on being treated as a single package. This is dangerous to us all. It prevents separating out elements clearly acting against our common good and dealing with actual problems in a rational manner. This poorly thought out policy will come home to roost one day soon. We will be forced to eventually synchronize with hard reality and the immutable laws of nature; the process will be wrenching. Screw with our energy supply, defense, infrastructure and business today, freeze, become enslaved, live in a mud hut and be penniless tomorrow. Mariss

Hi Mariss,
We've made do by adding capacity to existing refineries. By implementing conservation we'll be able to reduce our demand for petroleum. This will work better than building new refineries. We could all cut our petroleum use in half by driving more efficient (lighter, smaller) vehicles. This should be mandatory. Opps, that sounded political, sorry. I plan on getting on board for a more efficient lifestyle, my next vehicle will run on natural gas. I may even purchase a motorcycle to save on fuel.
I don't think it's a coalition of obstructionist greenies, just a collaboration of rational thinking individuals who realize that we are running out of petroleum. Maybe that's a good thing, if we act now we have the capability to implement a synthetic fuels program that will wean us off petroleum and improve the environment. It is time to quit voraciously consuming petroleum because it's finite, is probably damaging the environment, the population is increasing unsustainably, and any rational person must realize it can't continue as it has.
We simply don't have a choice. To suggest that we'll somehow enslave ourselves by doing this is to hijack the debate with fear. On the contrary, it will free us of imported oil and liberate us from dependence on countries that are run by religious extremists. Like perhaps our own country is at the present time. Sorry, couldn't resist.
xyzdonna

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by xyzdonna We've made do by adding capacity to existing refineries. By implementing conservation we'll be able to reduce our demand for petroleum. This will work better than building new refineries.

Whoa, hold on there, cowboy... (sorry, just doesn't sound right saying cowgirl... )

We've made due?

You mean we've been taking it in the shorts. Right?

We've been "implementing conservation" for 30 years, why do you think we're at the level of efficiency we're at now? Building refineries will help reduce the cost at the pump. It will reduce our dependency on thugs and will help keep us from funding them.

But the most disturbing part of your post is this...

This should be mandatory.

Don't worry, Donna, I won't say how I really feel about that phrase...

But I will tell you this... I (usually) don't care what the issue is (and this is one of those times), when anyone tries to make me do anything forcibly, I resist.

Loudly.

So don't expect me to be jumping on that bandwagon if I am "forced" to do it, and don't expect to see any of those energy saving, environmentally destructive light bulbs in my house any time soon either.

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by Rekd Whoa, hold on there, cowboy... (sorry, just doesn't sound right saying cowgirl... ) We've made due? You mean we've been taking it in the shorts. Right? We've been "implementing conservation" for 30 years, why do you think we're at the level of efficiency we're at now? Building refineries will help reduce the cost at the pump. It will reduce our dependency on thugs and will help keep us from funding them. But the most disturbing part of your post is this... Don't worry, Donna, I won't say how I really feel about that phrase... But I will tell you this... I (usually) don't care what the issue is (and this is one of those times), when anyone tries to make me do anything forcibly, I resist. Loudly. So don't expect me to be jumping on that bandwagon if I am "forced" to do it, and don't expect to see any of those energy saving, environmentally destructive light bulbs in my house any time soon either.

Hi Rekd,
Yes I know, the mercury in those little curly cue light bulbs is troublesome. Same with fluorescent bulbs and some neon that isn't pumped with neon gas but actually pumped with argon and mercury vapor. But if you could get people to recycle them properly they would save on energy. I guess the answer is to put a tax on them and let people bring them back in for a refund. Say a $5 deposit that you would lose if you just threw them in the trash. There is no doubt that we need to conserve energy. I know, freedom loving Americans ball up when forced to do anything but do we have a choice?
Not trying to alienate someone who is even slightly on my side but we are going to have to make some changes. Implementing conservation for 30 years? Perhaps, but I think you could take the average MPG of all our vehicles and double it with smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles.
xyzdonna

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by xyzdonna But if you could get people to recycle them properly they would save on energy.

Recycling is not my issue. Breakage is the problem. I'll be damned if I'm going to put those in my house with my kids if I have to call Haz-Mat if one of them breaks. No ef'n way. Not going to happen. I don't give a crap how much energy it saves.

I guess the answer is to put a tax on them

You're losing votes. Fast.

More taxes is not the answer. To anything. I don't really care if you dress it up as a refund either.

There is no doubt that we need to conserve energy.

Most of us have been. For a long time.

That solar voltaic system on my roof? That is just the start.

I also have, as you can see from the pict, a thermal coating on the roof, insulation, double pained windows, a solar hot water heater, a pellet stove for heat, a well for irrigation, a diesel truck that can run on refined vegie oil, motorcycles to save gas, and the only gas I use in the house is propane and that's for cooking and the drier.

Oh, and the best part is that I've got a very large safe busting at the seams with fire arms of all shapes and sizes with cases and cases of ammo to fend off any tax collectors or other such people that want to come here and try to force me to be "more efficient".

[jhowelb]

x

[jhowelb]

Originally Posted by Rekd Oh, and the best part is that I've got a very large safe busting at the seams with fire arms of all shapes and sizes with cases and cases of ammo to fend off any tax collectors or other such people that want to come here and try to force me to be "more efficient".

What's that sound? The ringing of revolution? Some folks are fed up?

Guess I'm not alone!!

(A government big enough to give you every thing you need is big enough to take every thing you have!)

[xyzdonna]

Originally Posted by Rekd Recycling is not my issue. Breakage is the problem. I'll be damned if I'm going to put those in my house with my kids if I have to call Haz-Mat if one of them breaks. No ef'n way. Not going to happen. I don't give a crap how much energy it saves. You're losing votes. Fast. More taxes is not the answer. To anything. I don't really care if you dress it up as a refund either. Most of us have been. For a long time. That solar voltaic system on my roof? That is just the start. I also have, as you can see from the pict, a thermal coating on the roof, insulation, double pained windows, a solar hot water heater, a pellet stove for heat, a well for irrigation, a diesel truck that can run on refined vegie oil, motorcycles to save gas, and the only gas I use in the house is propane and that's for cooking and the drier. Oh, and the best part is that I've got a very large safe busting at the seams with fire arms of all shapes and sizes with cases and cases of ammo to fend off any tax collectors or other such people that want to come here and try to force me to be "more efficient".

Hi Rekd,
You don't have to worry about that. There isn't enough mercury in them to be a concern. I know there was a thing on the news about a lady who broke one of them and called some govt. agency and they told her she would have to have the house decontaminated. A complete overreaction. If your kids are old enough to understand you could tell them to not ingest any shiny little balls of liquid. I doubt you'd be able to even find a droplet in the tube though.
The amount they put in them is so miniscule.
I did take the time to post your concern to my friend John who is an expert in this as well. He has been poisoned by mercury in the past and knows a thing or two about chemistry as well, I'm waiting for his reply. I also have a friend who's in his 80's and he's been making neon for over 50 years. You use a lot of mercury in neon tubes. We'll that's a little inaccurate. There are tubes filled with the actual neon gas and tubes filled with a mixture of argon and mercury vapor. The latter are usually coated inside with a phosphor coating. They are made to fluoresce when the UV produced by the ionization of the mercury vapor/argon in the tube strikes the phosphor coating. The type of phosphor determines the color. Also don't forget fluorescent light bulbs, they contain mercury as well.
Remember, mercury is a liquid at room temperature, not a gas.
xyzdonna

[rancherbill]

Originally Posted by Rekd ...... I'll be damned if I'm going to put those in my house with my kids if I have to call Haz-Mat if one of them breaks. No ef'n way. Not going to happen. I don't give a crap how much energy it saves. ....... Oh, and the best part is that I've got a very large safe busting at the seams with fire arms of all shapes and sizes with cases and cases of ammo to fend off any tax collectors or other such people that want to come here and try to force me to be "more efficient".

Haz-Mat ??? I don't think the risk at home for your kids is CF lights - it's you!.

Meeting the Light Bulb Police at the door with all your firearms is not a healthy thing to be teaching your kids - remember they are listening and learning all the time.

If incandescents must be replaced with CF Bulbs and you don't like it you have two choices - go to bed early or use candles. Guns are not the answer.

You constitutional "Freedom" does not entitle you to a) break the law, or b) shoot the Light Bulb Police. It does entitle you to talk about it, as you are doing in this Forum, in a responsible manner.

Rhetoric about guns being a solution is offensive.
Rhetoric about being an armed insurgent with the Light Bulb Police is offensive.

[jhowelb]

Rhetoric about "you are the threat in your home" is offensive.
Rhetoric about my constitutional "Freedom" is offensive.
The founders of this country took up personal arms to oppose oppression in "a responsible manner" and if todays citizens must take up arms for that purpose, that will also be "responsible. The purpose of the Second Amendment was to limit rather than augment the power of government and with things like "the Light Bulb Police" or "Global Warming Abatement Police" in mind.

I think you are only beginning to hear the rhetoric and see the reaction should some one want to make things "mandatory".




(A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have!)

[jhowelb]

Listen to the words of an old tune and take heed!

"With compromise sway we give in half way
When we saw that rebellion was growing.
Now every thing's lost as they kneel by the cross
Where the blood of Christ is still flowing.
Too late for their sorrow they've reached their tomorrow
and reaped the seed they were sowing.
Now harvested by the ringing of revolution."

[rancherbill]

Originally Posted by jhowelb The founders of this country took up personal arms to oppose oppression in "a responsible manner" and if todays citizens must take up arms for that purpose, that will also be "responsible.

Incredible!

I sure don't want to be a Light Bulb Policeman if I'm going to be shot on the doorsteps of your or REKD's house as you act in a RESPONSIBLE MANNER opposing light bulb oppression. I would sure hate to see what would happen if you acted in an irresponsible manner.

Wouldn't it make more sense to elect somebody as President that shared your views. I don't see a lot of talk or advocacy in this forum about who is the best Candidate for the Anti GW viewpoint. It would seem to me that Political Action WORKING for the right candidate might prevent the need for armed response to oppose light bulb oppression and all the other GW stuff.

It's just a thought, but, in a democracy, I think it might be a start instead of guns.