Its all very well to talk about global warming, but....

[Geof]

Rekd you are not reading carefully enough. I did not say the US was emulating on a one-for-one basis the behaviour of some of the extremists. I said that the logic being applied to explain or excuse activities such as waterboarding, sleep deprivation or other treatment that is not dignified or humane is that it is okay because the other guys are worse. You come close to saying that explicitly. If you set your standard of comparison low enough you can always claim the high ground. I simply believe that some of the documented and admitted activities of US, British and, yes, Canadian governments and armed forces personnel are not up to the standard that should prevail in a civilised society.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by Geof Rekd you are not reading carefully enough. I did not say the US was emulating on a one-for-one basis the behaviour of some of the extremists. I said that the logic being applied to explain or excuse activities such as waterboarding, sleep deprivation or other treatment that is not dignified or humane is that it is okay because the other guys are worse. You come close to saying that explicitly. If you set your standard of comparison low enough you can always claim the high ground. I simply believe that some of the documented and admitted activities of US, British and, yes, Canadian governments and armed forces personnel are not up to the standard that should prevail in a civilised society.

I guess when you claimed

if you lower yourself to the level of your opponents you have lost the cause.

I figured you thought we had done that, when very clearly we have not. I agree we have not been saints, but we have done much more than most others to protect innocent life. Even to protect the 'not so innocent' lives of those we fight against.

Again, it's sad how America is seen as the problem here.

[Madclicker]

POW, enemy combatant, whatever you want to call them. The ones that are still at gitmo will probably never be released and don't fall under the geneva convention.

[ynneb]

Are we talking about global warming here, or are we just bush bashing?

I guess what I am trying to say is, since we feel it is important to introduce a global warming forum into a CNC forum, because we think it is important, there are also other important issues too.
No Matt, not Bush bashing, but accountability yes. Please NEVER make the mistake that questioning the government of the day is the same as blaming the people of America / Australia. You seemed to introduce the concept of people blaming America. Most Americans if given the choice would not follow the path they are now taking, if it wasn't for the government of the day.

I hate terrorism as much as you, trust me, I entertain wicked ideas of what I would like to do to them if I ever met one. BUT..... there is a right way and a wrong way for us to go about our bussiness, and even though it may seem justifiable, torture and country invading are not the ways. The problem with these methods are lots of innocent victims are harmed in the process.

I am very cynical of the motivation of our governments. If they were genuinely concerned about freeing Iraq's people, they would be as equally concerned about fighting for the rights of oppressed people in other countries too. I don't believe the torture and invasion is about fighting against terrorism.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Deleted

Mariss

[phomann]

Originally Posted by vacpress i always liked benny.

You no longer like somebody because they have a different view to you? I guess this just about sums up the problem.

A lack of tolerance (and probably understanding) for others that share the planet.

It's not a new problem. It just seems to be getting worse.


Cheers,

Peter.

[turmite]

Originally Posted by vacpress dude.. dont you know anything about our government? we live under a consitantly mean natured set of 'rulers'... cases in point: -Iran Contra -the entire 2nd iraq war -Vietnam -Watergate type crud -the first Bush election -how long it took us to get into WW2 -HOLDING ANYONE WITHOUT CHARGES! -constant funding of guerilla groups that may help us make $ in small countries -refusal to sign non proliferation treaty -total undoing of UN and geneva convention work -refusal to sign into international courts -massive tax exemption for huge well-off companies that need no tax breaks -refusal to court marshal higher officers, but total willingness to blame systematic torture on barely post-teens from the middle of america!!! this IS evil. if you do not see this as evil, you probably have horns and a bifrucated tounge. -that whole thing where we like to fake terrorist attacks to use as an excuse to goto war for profit. (not saying it is the case in any specific instance, just that the US Govt. has documented their desire and ability to do so) - The list goes on, dude. man. people seem to think that if they ally themselves with the horrific brute that is the US govt, they can somehow gain some profits.. sadly, it is probably true.

Robert I need some clarification on the highlighted paragraph? Please splain that to me!

Now for the sentence highlighted in red! I will give my life and blood before I will ever submit to international law!

Mike

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by turmite Robert I need some clarification on the highlighted paragraph? Please splain that to me! Mike

He is obviously just ranting without anything substantial to back him up, nor any validity to the current problem.

I could go through his post line by line and debunk or defuse almost all of it as it does not relate to our current problem, but it's not worth the time. Any effort to explain any of those situations to him would simply be a waste of bandwidth, so I ignored it.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by ynneb No Matt, not Bush bashing

Oh, really?

George Bush and John Howard, have bought untold shame on both of our countries.

There is more shame when you feel your own country (and mine) and especially the current leaders trying to defend them are to blame for a problem that has existed for thousands of years.

[Rekd]

Originally Posted by Rekd Oh, really? There is more shame when you feel your own country (and mine) and especially the current leaders trying to defend them are to blame for a problem that has existed for thousands of years.

Thousands of years, benny, thousands of years.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Rekd Thousands of years, benny, thousands of years.

Actually no not thousands.

The current terrorists are happy with the state of affairs that existed about a thousand years ago when their ancestors had successfully invaded a whole bunch of places. They are upset about what happened during the past 300 to 800 years when they were booted out of these places.

[7446 Guy]

Anyone see 300 yet, you Rekd? VERY errie parallels to our current situation with our own inner politics and attempt at preservation of culture.

I really like how foreigners put down the US on a daily rant, or tell us to submit to international law.

Just be sure to drop off a "Thank You Card" to my uncles who made sure your not speaking German...while your at it...maybe even a card for my cousins too who will try and make sure your not forced to read the Koran anytime soon.

I'm just disappointed in our Presidents lack of aggressive leadership with Syria and Iran. Those countries should be potholes