Alt fuels... & a Good stock pick

[Geof]

Originally Posted by ImanCarrot hehe yep you are right, also the weight of the ice on the land squashes it down. As the ice melts the land mass actualy springs upwards

"Spring" is not quite the correct word.

[fizzissist]

...back on the corn vs. cane subject...

"..During its growth to maturity, the cane stalk absorbs the same amount of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as is eventually emitted during combustion of the ethanol distilled from its juices.

But this is not so for ethanol made from corn in the United States or wheat in Europe. These primary materials must first be turned into sugars before fermentation, which requires the use extra fossil fuels and adds to carbon gasses emitted in the production process.

Brazilian cane mills are also powered by leftover cane stalks that heat caldrons to generate steam and electric energy, an extra advantage that corn and wheat don't have.

Unica estimates that Brazilian cane ethanol on average yields more than 8 times more energy than is used in the production process, compared with US corn ethanol production that yields between 1.1 to 1.7 times as much energy...."
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsst...9942/story.htm

[Geof]

Originally Posted by fizzissist ...Unica estimates that Brazilian cane ethanol on average yields more than 8 times more energy than is used in the production process, compared with US corn ethanol production that yields between 1.1 to 1.7 times as much energy...." http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsst...9942/story.htm

You done been reading the same news item I have this morning.

[fizzissist]

Scary!!!!

...Meanwhile, elsewhere on the "Evil Big Corn Oil" (EBCO) front, the Farm Report had a discussion by industry execs (one being a rep from ADM) about the current aquisition and reallocation of 10Million acres for corn production, the vast majority of that displacing soybeans and cotton. One major consensus was that corn prices are going to rise.

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>"Spring" is not quite the correct word."
....Ok, it don't exactly 'spring'...but he's on the right track! The opposite is being observed where large buildings are being, or have been, built. One factor that exacerbates the sinking is where water and oil have been extracted.

In the case of Virginia City, Nevada it's more often a case of mines leaving gaping holes from gross dirt removal.

[sechichester]

Ok here it is. Like I said the battery cars are not a bad thing but there not a good thing. If we burn fule now to make cars and we need to burn fule to make new cars then the fule problem is still here. Now if we make the motors that burn the fule better and more efficent then we won't need new cars to replace them. If we can't fix the problem with the combustion motors we will be burning the same amount of fule to make two different cars. One that burns fule and one that run on batteries. Now thats not to mention the acid thta spills out of the cars on the ground and kills the earth. at least the trees help us out now. what will help us clean the roads of acid when you get a guy that doesn't fix is battery leak? raise taxes for more street cleaners? Fix the problem at hand.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by ImanCarrot hehe yep you are right, also the weight of the ice on the land squashes it down. As the ice melts the land mass actualy springs upwards

Actually it is a little more involved than that; more a water mattress type of situation which I have never seen incorporated into the calculations for ocean level increase due to land based ice caps melting. The land under the ice is depressed but around the edges of the ice the land is raised; this stands to reason because the land cannot go anywhere, the earth has to remain the a same volume. This means that some volume of the ice in the ice cap has already been transferred to the ocean by the raised sea bed around the ice cap. This may have little influence on the Antarctic ice cap melting because large areas of the continent are below sea level even though the ice is ground bound; in the case of Greenland however it could have an influence. Still it might be necessary to live for a very long time to see the effect.

[fizzissist]

Abiogenic Oil????? And why not??

"....The Russians decided to try something different. In the 1950s, perhaps due to the pressures of the Cold War, they started to hunt for oil according to a new theory -- most oil occurred naturally, deep within the Earth's crust, and had nothing to do with rotting organisms. That hunt has been highly successful, and the former Soviet states have many commercial oil wells apparently producing from deep basement rocks...."

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...il_991213.html

Say it isn't so!!!

[Geof]

Originally Posted by fizzissist Abiogenic Oil????? And why not??

Why don't you find something on methane hydrates? More locked away energy there than in all the known oil and coal deposits. If you can find a way to tap it.

[fizzissist]

Huge amounts of methane hydrates being released suddenly is one of the theories that could explain the Bermuda Triangle disappearances.

Presumably, large bubbles of methane suddenly 'burp' from the bottom, and any vessels located where the bubble hits the surface are sunk. Aircraft loose power when the engine starts breathing the wrong mix of methane, and crash into the sea, never to be seen again except in made-for-tv docudramas.

After we've killed off all the cute little penguins and polar bears, we can start mining the ocean bottom for methane hydrates and start killing off all the Finding Nemo characters.

[Dugg]

Day-ohm, that's Ebonics for Golly Gee.

We certainly have drifted afar from our roots here. Our roots being machining. Alas, I find this forum a refreshing diversion and insightful form of diversity.

Why do I have the feeling I've been led into this discussion by a couple of seemingly innocent posts and a totally-off-base stock recommendation?

Well, there I was at FL41 when my automatic pilot bailed out. It matters not, as I am thoroughly enjoying this exchange. I for one, aploigize for using the band width to divert from machining and beg the indulgence of our administration to allow continuance as deemed proper for the an excuseable duration.

Regardless of the scope of this forum, I will at sometime, suggest my personal theory as to the major contributing factor to the Global Warming Issue. I'll look to see if the primal salient point is raised.

[NinerSevenTango]

When all the ice melts, it will flow into the sea, thereby depressing the sea bed further and raising the adjacent land further above sea level.

Dugg, you should have called the stewardess in to help Otto out. Maybe his valve was leaking. Of course, most of us who turn 100 octane into noise and buy 80 where we can find it can't really afford Otto. And any FL is low earth orbit.

As far as the warming goes, I believe the most important philosophical approach is to studiously ignore the scale of the single most potent source of energy influx and its fluctuations.

If there's one thing humans can still learn by watching expedition specials on the travel channel, it's that low density energy sucks for survival, in a whole lot of ways.

--97T--

[mreish]

Originally Posted by NinerSevenTango fizzissist, All electricity does is move the pollution somewhere else, at an inescapable cost. It cannot be more efficient than taking a supply of almost ideal fuel with you and burning it on demand. I wonder how the range of the Volt will be affected if you have to run the heater?

Yes it does move the pollution somewhere else. It moves it to a central point where we can keep better control of it. One coal fired powerplant or 10,000 cars. I'll go with the powerplant.

If you turn on the heater in an EV it doesn't effect the range.

I know you were being funny but there's quite a few places out there that answer some of these questions. Ths one should get you going: http://www.eaasv.org/evinfo.html

Edit:
If you turn on the heater in an EV it doesn't effect the range as much as one might think.