Open source Windmill design.

**BJenkins** · 01-22-2011, 12:16 AM

Here is a link to my newest design.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2KJnT5jQng"]YouTube - Gyroscopic Wind Turbine[/nomedia]

Thanks,
Bill

**40fordcoupe** · 01-22-2011, 09:20 AM

Thanks Bill,
Wow! Very interesting design concept. I have a lot of questions, but don't feel qualified to make an evaluation. Non-the-less I would much rather see a landscape doted with these than the current crop of giant wind turbines which IMHO are a blight.
One comment about the video itself there is nothing that shows the scale of the device.
Again thanks,
Bob

**BJenkins** · 01-22-2011, 12:26 PM

Thanks for your comment. I too have many questions regarding this concept model. I couldn't resist the challenge of drawing it out and making it work in simulation. I wondered what a gyroscopic wind turbine might look like and how it might work. I have one more wild idea to attempt and then I "think" I'll be done.

I should have added a truck or something to give it scale. The tower is 100 feet tall and the flag is 30 feet. I was too lazy to do this but the generator pod could be reduced in size along with the tower tilt base.

Thanks for taking the time to view my videos.
Bill

**40fordcoupe** · 01-22-2011, 12:58 PM

Bill,
Thanks for posting them. Even if your designs are never built, who knows what and who might be influenced by them? Keep it up!
Bob B.

**BJenkins** · 03-09-2011, 11:36 AM

Hi,

I have uploaded a new wind turbine concept project. The basic details can be found in the written description. Thanks, Bill

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPuRIovRoBI"]YouTube - Long Arm Wind Turbine[/nomedia]

**fizzissist** · 03-09-2011, 04:45 PM

Sorry, inefficient as hell.
Too much wasted motion, too much time spent changing direction with attendant loss of efficiency.

What I don't follow is why the vanes have to rotate almost 180 deg before changing direction? Some kind of airfoil involved?

Nevertheless, there's way too much frictional loss at the bottom end too.

Good news...nice graphics.

**BJenkins** · 03-09-2011, 06:15 PM

Thanks for your honest feedback. You make some very good points.

The objective for this project was to use large surfaces attached to long lever arms for the purpose of generating power at very low wind speeds. At present a 14 MPH wind speed is the bottom end speed for producing cost efficient power. (14 MPH is an approximate number but the speed required is very high - IMHO)

To answer your question;
Yes, this simulation uses control surfaces in a similar manner to ailerons but I do not consider them as airfoils. The reason there is so much movement is because I have them pivot on a center point which minimizes the required torque from the servo or stepper motor because there is equal pressure on both sides. The control surfaces could be hinged on the end which would dramatically reduce the required movement. This could very well be the best way to go. I have other ideas for this concept that would increase efficiency. In any case, your points are well taken.

YouTube kind of hides the written description but I do have one if anyone is interested.

I’m glad you liked the graphics (Thanks) but I have to say that I lost a good 15% of the video quality by the time I went through the process of making the individual videos and finally uploading to YouTube.

I’m kind of using the shotgun approach to my low wind speed concepts. I have six other wild concepts on my channel and I’m sure I’ll add more. My other objective is to improve my CAD skills by giving myself difficult projects. The Wind Gin Project would like anyone who has an alternative energy innovation or concept to add their video in the comment section. This is an open source public collaboration experiment.

If you are considering prototyping an innovative idea, I can create a working model in CAD. I will gladly sign an NDA form.

Here is a link to my channel. YouTube - TheWindGinProject's Channel

Bill

**fizzissist** · 03-09-2011, 06:36 PM

Going out on a limb here.....If you want to use a more linear form of motion, counter to the rotary character of a classic windmill, then why not use a simple nutating (if that's the correct description) motion in your arms?

Thinking of a back and forth motion not unlike a fish's tail fin, or a dolphin-like motion in reverse....that is, where the wind pushes on the blade and forces it to go to one side, and then the blade simply rotates slightly, vacillating +/- 15-20deg each way?

Have 2 or 4 arms, similar to what you've got now, linked up out of phase like a V twin or V4 crank on an engine would be for smooth power flow ...

I think you could come up with a much simpler driving linkage to effect the angle changes. Like I said, the transition time of blade angle change needs to be much shorter and the linkage frictional losses reduced. Otherwise, I like the idea and I think this approach could be much more space efficient and much quieter....you're getting away from the 200mph tip speeds.

**BJenkins** · 03-09-2011, 08:19 PM

I have to admit I didn’t know the term nutating but I looked it up. MS Word didn’t know it either. I do have a video I call a "Gyroscopic Wind Turbine" that I think meets this definition but what you are describing sounds different and real interesting. The gyro model was more of a CAD challenge but I’m skeptical of all of my ideas in general. You won’t find any big claims coming from me. I just have big ideas with serious objectives that I enjoy bringing out in CAD models.

I also have an idea that uses a spherical bearing that would use this type of motion. (Again - I think) I did a quick simulation after working through the gyro model and I really liked the movement. It was simple with very few parts and has good bit of leverage. My hang up at present is on the aerodynamic end. I really need a fluid dynamics add on for Autodesk Inventor that gives you a virtual wind tunnel. (Extremely high end software - Not a possibility) Of course, it wouldn't be too hard to build a small model to prove it out except for the fact that it would require a work shop and a lot of trial and error. Sorry, if I’m not getting off track.

Yeah the 200 MPH tip speed baffles my mind along with the structural integrity engineered into these massive systems. I'm open to any type of design but I just feel that to utilize wind speeds on the low end of 6 to 8MPH; it’s not going to have a traditional propeller. I’m inspired by the engineers that bring these huge turbines to life but I admit if I lived underneath one, I would not be a happy camper.

I’ll read your abstract description again to see if I start to visualize the idea but I have a feeling that it would require a sketch or two for me to get it. I think there is a lot of art that goes into this kind of thing and if you make it yellow, someone is going to tell you that it should be blue. I promise; I won’t try to change your color. Ha!

Thanks,
Bill

**BJenkins** · 03-09-2011, 08:25 PM

After going over your idea again, I think this might be a little closer to what you are thinking of.

I hope you find time to work out some sketches!

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g_lCQyvrtA"]YouTube - RECIPROCATING Wind Turbine -- Low Speed Concept[/nomedia]

**BJenkins** · 03-10-2011, 04:29 PM

Your Observation Is Correct! – Thank You

I reluctantly went back into the simulation to check your observation regarding the long turnaround time for the control surfaces and you are correct. At present I have the control surfaces taking the long way around. (Twice the movement) Even though it’s just a concept video, I do want it to be right so now I will make the correction. I’ll post the revised video link. I knew you were making a good point but I just thought the large movement was caused by the center pivot design. I also agree with reducing friction as much as possible but I feel that the combination of large surfaces and long lever arms will overcome the mechanical friction with ease. That's my excuse for not working out a better way. Ha! I've got to limit the time I spend on these concepts at some point.

I have another idea on adding a third lever arm. This would require a good bit of time but the basic idea is to have two lever arms balanced at angles with the third arm balanced vertically. This would prevent the arms from crossing paths along with other obvious benefits.

If you do come up with some drawings, I would consider doing some free CAD work for you if needed.

Thanks Again,
Bill

**fizzissist** · 03-10-2011, 06:37 PM

I thank you for the CAD offer, but I have enough CAD capability for what I need now, and probably in the future. I do appreciate the offer.

I really do love fresh, outside-the-box approaches and viewpoints. It keeps one engaged and interested. To watch some of the russians I've worked with come up with novel ideas that no one thought would work, or were ignored, and see them not only become successful but plow new inroads was exciting.

You're trying to make inroads too, I admire and respect that.

That said, I hate to throw another wrench in your gears, but..... Another area where there's problems is one of mass changing directions, and not creating energy in the process. That's one of the elegant beauties of rotation, and especially when the current state of the art in electricity generation is generators that rotate.

Windmills, turbines, and all those things just go round and round, and there's no translational losses converting straight into rotary. One of the joys of Wankel and weak links of piston.

Would love to have time to spend coming up with and drawing out ideas on energy, but I'm limited on time now for making sure endmills don't machine clamps and I get more than one part from an insert.

**BJenkins** · 03-10-2011, 08:31 PM

Hey your observation was on the money and all of your comments make sense to me. I will go ahead and fix the mistake and at the same time add the third arm design. The time to make the simulation correction is a drop in the bucket and I will figure out a way of showing the third arm without spending much time on it.

I definitely like rotary movements much more than reciprocating conversions for the reasons you mention but I’m just throwing it all out there. Remember my design objectives are only for a very low wind speed unit.

Here is my first concept that is a rotary movement and uses large surfaces and long arms. I should have made the arms as long as sailplane wings, reduced the stack in half but it’s easy to see improvements after the fact. I also wish I would have made it counter rotating. etc. etc. It was my first 3D CAD project so the quality is not as good and I was a bit timid to go too far with it.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpE5qQVSP5I"]YouTube - "Vertical Axis Wind Turbine" "Wind Gin" Short Version[/nomedia]
There is also a very detailed long version for those that might find something interesting.

Thanks,
Bill

**BJenkins** · 03-10-2011, 09:49 PM

"making sure endmills don't machine clamps"

Now that is a challenge. HA! I feel your pain although I have limited CNC experience I have done this. At least twice. I was real proud and confident of my G-Code both times.

Working with Russians sounds like a real interesting story to me.

Ok I'll stop with the messages and get to it. I already fixed the simulation but I still have to do a few other things. I want to get off of this project.

By the way, when you mentioned the confusing movement being almost 180 degrees. It was 120 to be exact. HA! You were on the money. I guess I was just happy to have the control surfaces getting to the correct position at the correct time. I have to use a graph to do this and it is confusing (I was working with negative numbers) plus I was overwhelmed with what the next steps would be. That’s my excuses and I’m sticking to all of them.

**BJenkins** · 03-12-2011, 11:53 AM

I corrected the mistake and uploaded a revised version. I also added a quick photo for a third arm configuration.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2GeR-qqPc"]YouTube - Long Arm Wind Turbine[/nomedia]

Thanks,
Bill

**Burnit0017** · 03-12-2011, 12:03 PM

Greeting, I have been working on a new PMA and VAWT. The PMA uses vertically stacked rotors and stators to increase output at a lower RPM. Another benefit is it only requires ½ the magnets then a traditionally fabricated axial flux PMA. The blades of the VAWT are fabricated from corrugated plastic sheets attached to a spoke and hub configuration.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXRkMVc7Q1M"]YouTube - VAWT proto-type[/nomedia]

**BJenkins** · 03-12-2011, 12:49 PM

Nice clean design! I also find your generator design real interesting. Coraplast or corrugated plastic makes sense. Great material and it looks professional.

There is a company that has a new generator that may use some of the same principals. I think what they are doing is turning off coils electronically to limit resistance at low wind speeds. I read a blog where some really liked it and a few were skeptical. I think they are also using a stacked generator design. I hope you keep working on it. You have a lot of interesting videos.

I wonder if a counter rotating VAWT could have the generator in the middle with half the generator rotating clockwise while the other turns in the opposite direction. (just a thought - not a question)

Thanks, you are doing a lot of work on this and it shows.

**Burnit0017** · 03-12-2011, 01:35 PM

Greetings, yes I have seen the counter rotating VAWT design. The rotors spin in one direction and the stator spin in the opposite direction.

Home

The photo on the windgen.org shows the design. From what I have read they really work. The design is more complex. I have been trying to keep it as simple a possible. I was able to do some basic testing before winter but then it became to cold to continue. I should know more in a few weeks. Thanks for kind words and best regards.

**BJenkins** · 03-12-2011, 02:33 PM

That’s interesting. I saw the idea mentioned in a YouTube video regarding the counter rotating generator idea and mentioned it to a retired electrical engineer friend and he was not over positive about it. (I think I caught him on a bad day – Ha!)

I like the simple approach. You need a wind tunnel!

Bill

**Burnit0017** · 03-12-2011, 05:59 PM

Greetings, a wind tunnel would be great. My R&D budget is limited, this is my solution.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Cbg8q7quM"]YouTube - VAWT Road Test Rig[/nomedia]

My test fixture is a battery and a charge controller. I record the output at different speeds and then reproduce the data using a lathe to gather the RPM information. Testing is incomplete but it has showed that the PMA does work and the output is a lot higher at lower RPMs.

The stator coils are wired in series, then they are wired in either a star or delta configuration and each stator is offset to obtain the 3 phase output. Stacking the stators and rotors vertically allow for a increased coil count in a smaller foot print and use ½ the magnets then a traditional axial flux fabrication. Over the winter I redesigned the blade assembly to a double spoke and hub configuration that is very similar to others that are on the market. I still have to fabricate it, I do not have any drawings available. The design will make the VAWT more stable at higher wind speeds and easier to assemble. It will also allow me to increase the blade size if needed.