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  1. #9021
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    Quote Originally Posted by totally_screwed View Post
    Here you are using a computer, which means that you use technology. Technology uses science. Science is theory, research is done to prove or disprove theory. If the research provides evidence that does not match the theory [it happens] the theory has to be modified [if appropriate] or discarded completely. A theory is tested by whether it can predict previously unseen behaviour. Naturally, research is done to look for the predicted behaviour. The theory is confirmed or confounded as a result. Science is an iterative process.
    This is briefly how science works.

    In this respect, climate science is no different from the science of semiconductors that underpins the electronics in the PC or Mac that you are using.

    Climate models are part of this. Climate models are quite different from your expressed opinion.

    The fact that models have difficulty in modelling ice-melt is because the mechanisms are still not properly understood. Currently the models underestimate melting by a factor of three or so. If it was merely a matter of a little tweaking here and there, then where would the problem be?

    Model modification requires SCIENCE! This is why you are wrong!

    Very briefly, climate models calculate the climate by incorporating the known behaviour of the various components of the atmosphere and hydrosphere.

    I suggest you read the following, it is an introduction:
    RealClimate: Regional Climate Projections

    The following includes more information about climate models.
    Spencer Weart's "Discovery of Global Warming" (AIP)
    http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

    All of these lead to peer-reviewed science.

    The rest of your post was not worth commenting upon. No substance, just rant. Why not check your facts first!
    Facts are exactly the issue here, as most people present "facts" that concur with what they were taught in school (no critical thinking skills are taught anymore), or what he/she believe to be true based on any number of things. The big push of "global Warming" was started by Maurice Strong and Algore. If one is to have a rounded knowledge, then one must take into account the science presented by those who say man made climate change (what normal folk call "weather") is a worldwide hoax. So, I'd suggest a few days of reading at climatedepot.com and sepp.org. Currently there are 31,000 scientists that say it's a hoax.

    As far as climate models go, the Hockey Stick idea of Hansen will give the same approximate results if one inputs any random data. Curious to note that only during the past few years has the Sun been taken into account (kind of like not having heat in your home, and the repair guy checks everything but the furnace), and not one major study has taken into account the fact that water vapor and the Sun is the main driver of Earths climate. The believers will hardly discuss it because it negates all of the scare mongering about Co2. The entire issue is caused by those who want to distribute the wealth of successful countries, so "everyone is the same" as far as wealth or income. This can be seen in the NASA article. Can anyone say worldwide Marxism and/or Socialism? Hmmm ... those two principles have caused the deaths of over 100 million people in the last 100 years...... let's do more of that!

    If this crap is what NASA is now doing, it's time to de-fund it.

    Last edited by zappafan1; 03-20-2014 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Addition of content


  2. #9022
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    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Oh woe and a great gnashing of teeth.....the OZ dollar is going down and expected to go as low as 60 cents to the US dollar......wow, Batman that means we can paper the outside toilet again but with OZ dollars over the US dollars we papered it with last year.......that's going to be the most expensive sh!thouse when the dollars(s) rise from the ashes once again.

    I think if the Yanks converted all their dollars to OZ dollars they'd make a killing, but they'd have to ask permission from the Chinese first.....LOL......at least we don't have ghost towns like Detroit in our urban sprawl.

    The funny thing is the OZ dollar still buys a loaf of bread for $2.50, same as last year when it was at parity with the Yanks', so who's fooling who with the doom and gloom tactics.

    One thing's for sure, I ain't gonna do any abroad traveling while the OZ dollar is at give away prices.......it's gonna be Ozzy ice cold beer and BBQ steaks by the pool, same as usual until the weather changes and we put socks on with our thongs.

    I feel sorry for all those folks that still buy international.

    Funny thing about that, the prices on EBAY are STILL the same as before, and most of the stuff is foreign imports.

    How can you get a 50% drop in the dollar value and still pay the same?

    Must be new old stock they're running out.
    Ian.
    Since 1913, with the origins of the (not Federal) Reserve, the value of the dollar has dropped 90% Take into account that the estimated amount of money in the world is $90 Trillion US dollars. Now check the US Debt Clock, and you'll see that the unfunded mandates of Medicare, Social Security and Medicare Part D is $128 Trillion Dollars (that figure estimates the amount going out 30 years). So, that amounts to about $1,111.000 and change per person in the US. How many generations will it take to pay that off? Answer? It can never be paid off. The world as we know it will cease to exist much sooner, and it has nothing to do with the weather. When the US dollar collapses, the world economy will collapse.



  3. #9023
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel28 View Post
    The effects of climate change can be seen and felt all over the world. Typhoons, floods, and earthquakes everywhere. Seriously, we need to be vigilant on what we do to our environment.
    The things you mention haven't increased, on average, in the past 200 years. Mars got hotter during the past few decades, too, as did all of the planets in our Solar System. Those rovers run on fossil fuel?



  4. #9024
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    Quote Originally Posted by dufas View Post
    No need to worry about global warming/climate change any more. We are all doomed........

    Civilization to Collapse in a Few Decades: NASA | Austrian Tribune

    Civilization to Collapse in a Few Decades: NASA
    Submitted by Tim Mayr on Thu, 03/20/2014 - 07:14


    A new study by NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center has claimed that only a few decades are left for our current civilization before it collapses. Mathematician Safa Motesharrei of the National Socio-Environmental Synthesis Center wrote a report along with her team of natural and social scientists. The report said that there are fixed numbers of days for modern civilizations, and there is nothing to blame on climate change, or a potential World War III.

    They cited five major reasons for the social collapse, comprising of population, climate, water, agriculture and energy. According to the report, within the last 5,000 years, all societal collapses have been a result of the strain placed on the ecological carrying capacity as resources were overstretched. Also, the economic stratification of society into Elites and poor in Masses caused the social collapse.

    The flow of resources accessible to Masses is controlled by the 'Elite' population, which in turn allows Elites to accumulate a great amount for themselves. It is more than enough to strain natural resources.

    Motesharrei's team is of the firm belief that this will become the cause of societal collapse at the end of civilization.

    Technology cannot be the panacea of all problems and civilization is certainly the one that technology will not be able to address. On the contrary, technology has exacerbated the problem. Efficiency of resources use can be improved by technological change, but it also raises per capita resources.

    Elites themselves are solution to the problem but they would have to take the imitative to restructure society. "The two key solutions are to reduce economic inequality so as to ensure fairer distribution of resources, and to dramatically reduce resource consumption by relying on less intensive renewable resources and reducing population growth", said Motesharrei.

    Studies by KPMG and the UK Government Office of Science have also warned that a perfect storm could be created within 15 years due to the convergence of food, water and energy crisis.
    Wait..... technology (and evil profit) has been the reason, at least in the US, that air pollution has dropped by 85% since the seventies, yet technology has exacerbated problem? The collapse of Rome was caused by two main things: 1- using Lead as water pipes and 2- making their money worthless using the exact same things that the Democrats are doing right now. Do we learn nothing from history?



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    Quote Originally Posted by zappafan1 View Post
    Wait..... technology (and evil profit) has been the reason, at least in the US, that air pollution has dropped by 85% since the seventies, yet technology has exacerbated problem? The collapse of Rome was caused by two main things: 1- using Lead as water pipes and 2- making their money worthless using the exact same things that the Democrats are doing right now. Do we learn nothing from history?
    To most of the great unwashed, history started when they were born. The schools do not teach history anymore and most are too lazy to educate them selves.

    Other main problems causing Rome's collapse was that they destroyed their own economic structure by levying excessive taxes on Rome's businesses/providers in order to fund External armies and their welfare system. Many of the farmers and other providers quit and joined the other citizens in getting welfare which led to a greater tax levied on the remaining farmers/providers. Artisans and craftsmen were already mostly in government employee or edict at this time. Slaves were costly and outnumbered the elite 20 to 1. The military was 90 percent paid mercenaries from other countries. Near the last, 90 percent of Rome's food, goods, and services was bought and paid for from other countries. Rome reached the point that they couldn't even commit more conquests to pay their own way. All this plus the underhanded politics continually weakened Rome to the point that if Rome was ripe for plucking by many of the hoard they were paying to protect them.

    Much of this is vaguely familiar to the present day...you are correct, we learn nothing from history......



  6. #9026
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Administrator disallowed posting a photo,

    After years as a member this is the last straw, I QUIT!!!

    “ In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson


  7. #9027
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by jhowelb View Post
    Administrator disallowed posting a photo,

    After years as a member this is the last straw, I QUIT!!!
    ..... Musta been a pretty bad photo!



  8. #9028
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Study: Fuels from corn waste worse than gas

    Study: Fuels from corn waste worse than gas

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Biofuels made from the leftovers of harvested corn plants are worse than gasoline for global warming in the short term, a study shows, challenging the Obama administration's conclusions that they are a much cleaner oil alternative and will help fight climate change.

    A $500,000 study paid for by the federal government and released Sunday in the peer-reviewed journal Nature Climate Change concludes that biofuels made with corn residue release 7% more greenhouse gases in the early years compared with conventional gasoline.

    The research is among the first to attempt to quantify, over 12 Corn Belt states, how much carbon is lost to the atmosphere when the stalks, leaves and cobs that make up residue are removed and used to make biofuel, instead of left to naturally replenish the soil with carbon. The study found that regardless of how much corn residue is taken off the field, the process contributes to global warming.



  9. #9029
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Is that a fact????.....Global warming, yeah!!!!!....lets have more warming.....recycle all the corn stubs and make lots of bio fuel, then we can bask in the warm weather again.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Hey fizzissist....., I believe I found fizzycist.. or at least one of his posts. He is about 1/3 the way down in the comments at TARP Bailout Cost Taxpayers $40 Billion.........



  11. #9031
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Cheap imitation. No me.
    .... besides that, I don't completely agree with all of what he says... !



  12. #9032
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Interesting !!!!


    Climate change science has become 'blind' to green bias - Telegraph

    ================================================== =============================================
    Global warming research suppressed due to intolerance of skepticism
    16 May 2014

    UN climate chiefs back fracking
    13 Apr 2014

    We should give up trying to save the world from climate change, says James Lovelock
    08 Apr 2014
    ================================================== =============================================

    “Academic freedom is a central aspect to life at University of Reading. It is a very open, positive and supportive environment to work in. I have always felt able to put forward my arguments and opinions without any prejudice.”

    Prof Mike Hulme, Professor of Climate and Culture at King’s College London, said:” This episode tells us a lot about how deeply politicized climate science has become, but how some scientists remain blind to their own biases.”

    Prof Joanna Haigh, Co-Director of the Grantham Institute at Imperial College London, said:"It is regrettable that perceived political stances on the climate issue are apparently so affecting academic activity."



  13. #9033
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change


    Wow that is a interesting article. I recall when I was a kiddo I liked the Sunday programs about the Roman Empire and how they would go around with their swords and run things. It was neat. I noted with interest a few years later a book many considered mandatory reading "The rise and Fall of the Roman Empire". I have never read a whole book on the topic. (my Bad?) Later in like I was told of how Greece and Rome fell because of the rise of sin and the decline of the family and high values of morality. I suppose many people have valid points on the issue. There were things like "The Black Death Pandemic" also which did truely devastate the world. I suppose making a observation about such cycles and trying to learn from them in order to avoid such problems are valid. I think if the world goes to He double L then we are in a good spot geographically with great oceans on each side of North and South America as buffers from the majority of people in Europe, Asia, and Africa. I think Australia is very isolated too. I figure with Australia though that those Asians will just paddle their canoe on down and there will be nothing to stop them especially since Australia does not have a good history as far as repelling a serious threat. (like the Japanese) Sorry I had to say that since Ian has a lot to say about US I figure he deserves some feedback.



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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Hee Hee, the Japs never got to us sport, but they did make a dent in the US armour even though they knew it was a lost cause........now we are best friends....hoot hoot.....whereas the Russians who were our best friends in the WW2 era are still our enemies....LOL.
    Ian.



  15. #9035
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Yes we are friends for sure. You must admit we assisted you and helped you though. I recall we used resources to do that. I have always found your country fascinating.
    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hee Hee, the Japs never got to us sport, but they did make a dent in the US armour even though they knew it was a lost cause........now we are best friends....hoot hoot.....whereas the Russians who were our best friends in the WW2 era are still our enemies....LOL.
    Ian.




  16. #9036
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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Hi, I think nowadays the attitude is "if the cause is just, fight for it".....we've become a bit too choosy with our friends to have a World War again.

    There is a certain amount of money involved to go all out for even a minor war with little to gain, but the USA has to learn that lesson as she is doing now.

    I would agree that friends are friends and need to be shown as such if you want to go the extra yard when it comes to World dominance or World influence, and having friends that will back you no matter what your politics brings you back to the beginning of the 20th Century, when friends backed friends and didn't ask questions why when they had put pen to paper.

    Did anyone see the TV program about OZ politics and the latest political party to gain office with one of the independents (Clive Palmer of P.U.D) stating that he would back the repeal of the carbon tax with no strings attached....and guess who was standing right there next to him......A BIG ROLL OF DRUMS PLEASE AND A GREAT BRAYING OF TRUMPETS........none other than yours truly....AL GORE.

    Yes....AL GORE, the man who made millions supporting the climate change philosophy, and who now supports the back down on the carbon tax.....the carbon tax was supposed to have been imposed to offset the effects of the price some have to pay for the dirty coal burners making us all rich in OZ.

    Definitely another 100 million bucks in the wind now that Palmer and Gore are bosom buddies...so you could be right, that's what friends are for.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by roundman View Post
    Yes we are friends for sure. You must admit we assisted you and helped you though. I recall we used resources to do that. I have always found your country fascinating.
    Yeah, we found this country fascinating too, that's why the Aboriginals were deprived of their inheritance way back in the 1800's because it was such a fascinating country, which is a lot more than just thinking of it as a former penal colony.

    Personally I would have to say thank you very much for the friends across the sea friendship back in '39/'45 times, when we had friends who fought to ensure the sh!t that was happening in Europe didn't migrate to the USA, but that's what friends are for.
    Ian.



  18. #9038

    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    To help increase the productivity of farmers' fields, the local government decided in the late 1980s to build a series of small dams to trap the unreliable rainfall and connect these to simple irrigation systems.



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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    No worries a patent has been isued for a time machine. We can all go wherever we want to. LOL



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    Default Re: The Coming Climate Change

    So, is the argument over?

    The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever - Telegraph


    The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever
    New data shows that the “vanishing” of polar ice is not the result of runaway global warming

    When future generations look back on the global-warming scare of the past 30 years, nothing will shock them more than the extent to which the official temperature records – on which the entire panic ultimately rested – were systematically “adjusted” to show the Earth as having warmed much more than the actual data justified.

    Two weeks ago, under the headline “How we are being tricked by flawed data on global warming”, I wrote about Paul Homewood, who, on his Notalotofpeopleknowthat blog, had checked the published temperature graphs for three weather stations in Paraguay against the temperatures that had originally been recorded. In each instance, the actual trend of 60 years of data had been dramatically reversed, so that a cooling trend was changed to one that showed a marked warming.

    This was only the latest of many examples of a practice long recognised by expert observers around the world – one that raises an ever larger question mark over the entire official surface-temperature record.

    “ In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson


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