Global Warming Poll - Page 2


View Poll Results: Do you like global warming?

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  • Yes I love it.

    314 62.18%
  • No, it's bad.

    191 37.82%
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Thread: Global Warming Poll

  1. #21
    Member dertsap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariss Freimanis View Post
    And your fish won't be monotonously monochrome either.

    Mariss
    donno bout that

    man cannot create colors similar to the rainbows i was nailing into a couple weeks ago ,
    beautiful !



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    If there is, do you really think we can do much about it?

    No

    We can't make it rain where we want at anytime, how in the heck are we causing global warming?

    Do I like clean air, yes. Do I like cleaner cars and industry, yes.

    Clean happens via the market (and some laws) since people buy cleaner (IE:efficient) and industry responds with more products. Attrition does a fair job in this area too.

    I see our kids being brainwashed in this area too, and MANY ADULTS!!!



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    So, if carbon dioxide is causing the Earth to warm up. Who should we blame, the oil producing countries, or the oil using countries? Seems that if they hadn't pumped the oil out of the ground, it would still be sequestered.

    In the war on drugs, we blame the producers (liberals are the users), in the war on global warming we blame the users.



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    Default Will Global warming be good for us?

    It really depends on where you are living if and when "global warming" occurs. I said "if" because scientists or our "learned" people always seem to "discover" certain ideas. these ideas sometimes they catch on and influence others, and in turn cause others much confusion. Yet, most "learned" people are so specialised that often, they fail to look at the big picture. I believe that solar activity is causing this climate change and it may not necessarily be permanent.
    Personally, I think that we have a lot more to learn about our environment and to be at one with nature, this being that we try to have less impact on our environment and try to be sustainable in the long term. We are also at loggerheads with ourselves as to the changing nature of our environment. We also do not have sufficient data to prove or disprove certain events that are occuring now with respect to climate change. First of all, is our climate really changing, or is it just a short term phenomenon. Other planets are also being affected by this solar activity.
    However, we still need to be comfortable and be able to enjoy ourselves, otherwise what is the purpose of living in this world?
    there are others, of coursel that will make a lving out of the fear we have of climate change...the most recent major problem we had was the Y2K fear. I happened to work in the IT industry at that time, and found that much of the fear people had was quite unfounded. There were many people who thought that the world was going to end, that airplanes were going to just fall out of the sky, and all machines were going to go haywire the moment the clock strike midnight in the year 2000, .... etc. There was so much fear that many IT professionals made a huge profit from that fear and user ignorance. My advice to many was just shut down their computers on the last day of December 1999, and when they switch on the computers on new year's day 2000, and reset the date to 2000 in the BIOS. Most later model computers that were not Y2K compliant (that is, the date cannot roll over to 2000 automatically, ) would accept the new date and continue working. Only very few older computers cannot accept the year 2000 in their BIOS. Remember that in 1999, many computers were Intel Pentiums and their BIOS were quite advanced. Of course some software cannot accomodate the year 2000 in their program, but program shortcoming can be modified accordingly.
    I have lived many years, and have seen numerous occurances of fear mongering by people who should know better. Some do that to gain profit from fear, but some are just plain ignorant. I am sure with this "global warming or climate change fear' we are going to see a number of people getting rich from "carbon" trading, and also others profiting from the "greening of the envoronment". All consumers will get are higher prices, and a lower standard of living, and the environment getting the crumbs.
    These sorts of examples are plentiful throughout history, and if anybody care to do some research, they will uncover them easily. Of course, recent events can be masked by red tape, or perhaps some records may never see the light of day due to national security or some FOI rulings.
    But common sense should prevail .... although someone once said that common sense is not so common after all.
    One way or another, I do not fear climate change. I think that it is grossly irresponsible for anyone to spread rumours of our oceans rising and covering cities etc. and causing widespread choas as a direct result of climate change.



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    Default Amen To This

    Quote Originally Posted by FBJR View Post
    If there is, do you really think we can do much about it?

    No

    We can't make it rain where we want at anytime, how in the heck are we causing global warming?

    Do I like clean air, yes. Do I like cleaner cars and industry, yes.

    Clean happens via the market (and some laws) since people buy cleaner (IE:efficient) and industry responds with more products. Attrition does a fair job in this area too.

    I see our kids being brainwashed in this area too, and MANY ADULTS!!!
    Yes it’s true, many people have been brainwashed into this stupid theory and it’s somewhat funny. I have to say that it is a fact that one volcano eruption puts out the same amount of greenhouse gasses as cars do in the whole world in 10 years. So if it is because of that, it would be here with or without our help whether we like it or not.
    Just to add Al Gore wrote a whole book on Gloabal Warming, what does that tell you.



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    1) There is global warming. It's been occurring naturally since the "little ice age".
    2) Human intervention or cause is no more dangerous a contributer than a fly on the face of a charging elephant.

    The above is a paraphrase of a statement by a "Professor Emeritus" of the University of Wisconsin I heard on a radio talk show. He retired years ago and works at a desk still provided him by the UW. He originally set up that department. His description of the PC version of "Global Warming" is "Hooey".
    When asked why he hasn't given his opinion before he said "Nobody asked". After all, he might give an opinion different than the grant giving people want to hear from an eminent authority. Especially one they can't censure.

    DZASTR


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    Well, I think many members of this Group have a much broader picture of climate change and the environment because in our type of work, we have to do a lot of thinking and looking at all sort of ideas etc. If we were to express some of our opinions to the so called "greenies" group, we might be condemmed to hell! Many strongly believe the burning of fossil fuel is the direct cause of climate change. ..
    On a different note, will we really get global warming, ...or perhaps some parts of this World may experience warming but other parts may perhaps get colder? Did I hear that our earth's "magnetic pole" will change in the "near" future? Does it mean that our earth will spin clockwise instead?



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    I'm a mountain snowmobiler, I've long since gotten used to greenies hating me. We've fought greenies over snowmobiling in Yellowstone, and many other national parks and forests. Their all emotion, very little logic. You bad, we good. That's about the best they can do. Sometimes a well informed one shows up. But, if you can get them to give you references, you can usually poke holes in their argument big enough to drive a semi through. The worst is the "Professor" of such and such, too important to give the peasants references, and to busy to accept your uneducated rebuttal. The second worst is the news media greenie with an agenda. "The environment is worth lying for."

    CNN showed up to Yellowstone and brought gas masks for the park employees to wear. They don't actually have their own. They shot the story, packed the gas masks back up, and left. Now all the gullible people think park employees wear gas masks. You try to explain this to people, and most don't realize the engines in the snowmobiles are 4 strokes, that are much cleaner than a street bike. A Yamaha R1 motorcycle engine, mounted into a snowmobile, isn't allowed in the park. It won't pass emission requirements. Personally, I always thought snowmobiling in a volcano was the perfect place to recreate, what the heck could we do that won't be wiped out in the next eruption? But there I go again, using logic. I'm glad the park has restrictions. But, to close the park's roads to snowmobiles makes no sense.



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    I feel it is just a cycle that the earth is going through. I could be wrong. it wouldn't be the first time. There just isn't enough data to support their claims.
    Duane



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    Emotional Answer; Yes, we are causing it and we will all die tomorrow unless we go back to living like in the Middle Ages (wait, it was hotter then )

    Logical Answer; Not enough information, and nothing we can do about it anyway.

    FB



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    Well, yes, we seem to be groping in the dark to find solutions that in some cases we are not in control of, and not in our power to solve.
    Sad to think that most of our actions are based on insufficient data. Unfortunately, the porer countries have to suffer for any "carbon" policy this World dictates. the only thing we can do is to find a sustainable policy based on calculations and known data, and work on that. we can first manufacture goods that are longer lasting and durable, and more energy efficient, with a policy on how they should be recycled when the need arises. We can also use energy more efficiently so we don't burnt unnecessarily fossil fuel. We can start reforestation in denuded places. We can start cleaning up the environment and stop harvesting the seas and oceans like there is no tomorow. There are so many things individuals can do to support our future. We have to ask ourselves "Are we doing the right things to help the environment?" Every small effort we put in to help the environment will be useful in the long term. Do we still have to burn fossil fuel like we burnt logs on a fire. Why are we still using the internal combustion engine? Are we so ignorant while claiming to be so advanced in technology? Can we use other forms of reaction to obtain the required power or energy instead of exploding fuel in a chamber with the attending noise, vibration, pollution and toxic gases? Aren't our scientist and engineers smart enough to design better products? Looks like we aren't so smart after all...with more than a hundred years of producing the same old internal combustion engine...Am I the only crazy person to think that there are better ways of using our fossil fuel?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosper View Post
    Well, yes, we seem to be groping in the dark to find solutions that in some cases we are not in control of, and not in our power to solve.
    Sad to think that most of our actions are based on insufficient data. Unfortunately, the porer countries have to suffer for any "carbon" policy this World dictates. the only thing we can do is to find a sustainable policy based on calculations and known data, and work on that. we can first manufacture goods that are longer lasting and durable, and more energy efficient, with a policy on how they should be recycled when the need arises. We can also use energy more efficiently so we don't burnt unnecessarily fossil fuel. We can start reforestation in denuded places. We can start cleaning up the environment and stop harvesting the seas and oceans like there is no tomorow. There are so many things individuals can do to support our future. We have to ask ourselves "Are we doing the right things to help the environment?" Every small effort we put in to help the environment will be useful in the long term. Do we still have to burn fossil fuel like we burnt logs on a fire. Why are we still using the internal combustion engine? Are we so ignorant while claiming to be so advanced in technology? Can we use other forms of reaction to obtain the required power or energy instead of exploding fuel in a chamber with the attending noise, vibration, pollution and toxic gases? Aren't our scientist and engineers smart enough to design better products? Looks like we aren't so smart after all...with more than a hundred years of producing the same old internal combustion engine...Am I the only crazy person to think that there are better ways of using our fossil fuel?
    What fossil fuels? The earth creates oil just like it does diamonds, gold and other minerals. I remember 30 (when they talked about another ICE age) years ago when we were going to run out of oil at the current use in 25 years. Now the world uses more, we are finding more and get it out more EFF than ever before.

    The worlds poor nations are excempt or don't care about so called GW or our rules.

    The engines we use now run so clean you can't even kill yourself with the fumes now, it has to afixiate you.

    The USA is the cleanest nation in the world for what we produce per capita and how EFF we do it. Sure we use more OIL than other nations, but it is justified.

    Everyone lines up to come here, not leave. Think about that part.



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    Proper Quote: "We have to ask ourselves "Are we doing the right things to help the environment?" Every small effort we put in to help the environment will be useful in the long term"

    See Prosper, that's kind of the point. I think there are people capable of making decisions that would help the environment. But, the people that are whipping this all up, don't have a clue.

    It's just like the spotted owl. The scientist (they claimed to be anyway) claimed that if we shut down logging, it would save the spotted owl. So, we did. We killed the logging industry in Washington State. So what happened. The bird is still declining. Turns out, spotted owl are adapted to a sparse woodland mountainous environment. Not the overgrown, put every fire out, greenie directed policies. And, it turns out that one animal, the horned owl, is adapted to a dense forest (there native to back east). It also turns out that the horned owl is the natural enemy of the spotted owl. So 10 years later, the wildlife people announce a horned owl culling. About 500 animals to start with I believe. But, the greenies that promised that the birds would be saved by shutting down logging, no where to be found. Not an offer to repay one cent of all the needlessly lost jobs. Or, all the fuel and money and environmental damage caused by shipping wood in from all over the world. From places that don't regulate deforestation properly. They now claim that shutting down the forest helped other animals, and "Saved" the forest. They made a dramatic claim, without any proof. Are they liable?



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    Default Do we really have so much oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by FBJR View Post
    What fossil fuels? The earth creates oil just like it does diamonds, gold and other minerals. I remember 30 (when they talked about another ICE age) years ago when we were going to run out of oil at the current use in 25 years. Now the world uses more, we are finding more and get it out more EFF than ever before.

    Okay, you may be right, as I am not hearing the whole truth...perhaps the oil companies are lying about the scarcity of oil so that they can command a high price? I realy don't know but that. I have heard that oil is much harder to find and most of the oil are of poor quality. Also, they have to pressurise the well or use steam to extracted the last remaining gallon of oil in some cases. Maybe we have better technology in our search or we have better machines to do the difficult work? I don't know how much oil reserves we have, I think no one really knows for sure. I seem to have the theory that in this World, almost everything is finite, and we are capable of exhausting our resources eventually. We are also capable of causing animal and plant extinction...maybe it is not all "our fault", but we are able to hasten extinctions very easily.

    The worlds poor nations are excempt or don't care about so called GW or our rules.

    Yes, I do agree because they are just too poor to do anything else. They have to burn fire wood just to do basic cooking, or they will starve to death...are we doing anything to help them, or just pass comments and critisise them for wanting to survive. They do care..I visited China recently and many people there are very unhappy about the pollution, but without their polluting industries, they will all die....either way, they will eventually die but at least they won't die doing nothing. It is easy for us to say that our developed world has less pollution etc. We have to remember that we import a lot of cheap products from the "poor" countries. They create the pollution in their countries, we consume what they create..so who really is responsible? Many developed countries have shares or own large factories in the poorer countries where labour is cheap and also their laws regarding pollution is lenient. ((I won't mention names, but there are lots of famous brands of products owned by multinationals), also remember Bopal in India a few years ago? I am not blaming anyone for any pollution problems but it is just food for thoughts, that's all.


    The engines we use now run so clean you can't even kill yourself with the fumes now, it has to afixiate you.


    Perhaps the engines that are running in vehicles in the developed countries are less polluting but what about the ones in the poorer countries? How are they going to progress if they are in a vicious circle?Also, new technology cost a lot of money, and companies owning patents charge a lot for the licences. I dont' blame them for whatever amount they charge, but where does this lead to?
    Remember that in the end, we can blame anyone for creating pollution, but it will go unresolved, and also cause a lot of anger and resentment to all parties concerned. There must be a solution but are we willing to make compromises? Ultimately, are we living in one World or are we divided in our quest for a cleaner environment?


    The USA is the cleanest nation in the world for what we produce per capita and how EFF we do it. Sure we use more OIL than other nations, but it is justified.

    It is wonderful to know that the USA is leading the World in a cleaner environment. Perhaps the USA is the cleanest nation in the world, and there are many who love to migrate to the USA. How about then helping the rest of the World to become "clean"? Would it cost poorer countries the earth for that too happen? I was in the USA a long time ago. I met many nice people there, and I enjoyed my trip. Americans have a high standard of living and a good technological base. I may be wrong but I always thought that it is the migrants that made America great, both past and present. What about the railroad workers, the pioneers, of people like Albert Einstein, and many scientist that were refugees during the second world war, etc. did their part in contributing to the present America. With such a good base to work on, the younger generation will have a very good chance of keeping up the pace. Yes, indeed, it is very important for any country to accept hardworking and decent migrants to make a country great.


    Everyone lines up to come here, not leave. Think about that part.

    I live in Australia, and I am happy here. Personally, I like to live in Australia because I am surrounded by the most unique flora and fauna. It also has many climates, and we have many nice places to visit in the "bush". We have a small population, about 21 million inhibitants. We have big cities as well. I will always call Australia my home, no matter what!



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    I don't think anyone said Australia is a bad place to live. From what I remember, you have a problem with Indonesians (everybody) trying to move there. Besides, why did you change the subject from global warming to nationalist chest pounding. I don't think that was his point.

    Here in the states interesting things are going on:

    Some people hate hydroelectric dams, cause they want to revive the fish migration populations. Lots of lawsuits. There goes that form of clean energy.

    Every time someone tries to install a wind mill around here, they get challenged in court. Lawsuit. There goes that form of clean energy. Not to mention the Audubon society claims they kill birds and some type of squirrel like animals. The only place that has been installing them is Texas. President Bush put saws are in place to support wind energy back when he was governor, environmentalist are mad though.

    Tital generators, blocked by environmentalist, and home owners that don't want their view spoiled. Lawsuit.

    Everytime someone proposes installing a solar chimney, they get blocked at the local government level. Not in my backyard.

    Every time someone wants to burn wood, You guessed it, lawsuit. Going on in Oregon as we speak.

    Garbage incineration, lawsuit. Nashville Tn is good example.

    Nuclear Energy, lawsuits and marches, demonstrations, and acts of civil disobedience. Going on in Grand View Idaho.

    Fusion, nobody wants to fund it. They'd rather give money to those that won't work. Or on the flip side, the energy corporations block it's funding. So, they took their research over to Europe.

    Laws covering new house energy efficiency, the home builders association groups blocked that.

    So, the Engineer not only has to pull a energy bunny out of his azz. He also has to do it in such a way that doesn't offend someone. I mean, how do you do this? There's no magic energy solution. Energy has to be found, harvested, transported, utilized, and then disposed of. So, instead of ranting on engineers, how about proposing some solutions.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    I don't think anyone said Australia is a bad place to live. From what I remember, you have a problem with Indonesians (everybody) trying to move there. Besides, why did you change the subject from global warming to nationalist chest pounding. I don't think that was his point.

    Well, okay, when I wrote about Australia, it was meant to let people know that we live in our country and we are used to the life. So, under normal circumstances, no one likes to migrate to a foreign country because it has so many pitfalls. Eg. language difference, culture and traditions, new laws to remember etc. etc.. Nationalist chest pounding? I personally am fascinated by the unique environment here in Australia, so I feel that we should be careful what we do. Depends on how one reads my statement.. I wa implicating that if we consume too much, we eventually will suffer the consequences. Look, I agree that we live in this world for a short time,and many people like to enjoy life to the fullest and exposed their "bright side" and contribute their "two cents worth" to society..but we are producing too much garbage as well.




    Here in the states interesting things are going on:

    Some people hate hydroelectric dams, cause they want to revive the fish migration populations. Lots of lawsuits. There goes that form of clean energy.

    Every time someone tries to install a wind mill around here, they get challenged in court. Lawsuit. There goes that form of clean energy. Not to mention the Audubon society claims they kill birds and some type of squirrel like animals. The only place that has been installing them is Texas. President Bush put saws are in place to support wind energy back when he was governor, environmentalist are mad though.

    Tital generators, blocked by environmentalist, and home owners that don't want their view spoiled. Lawsuit.

    Everytime someone proposes installing a solar chimney, they get blocked at the local government level. Not in my backyard.

    Every time someone wants to burn wood, You guessed it, lawsuit. Going on in Oregon as we speak.

    Garbage incineration, lawsuit. Nashville Tn is good example.

    Nuclear Energy, lawsuits and marches, demonstrations, and acts of civil disobedience. Going on in Grand View Idaho.

    Fusion, nobody wants to fund it. They'd rather give money to those that won't work. Or on the flip side, the energy corporations block it's funding. So, they took their research over to Europe.

    Laws covering new house energy efficiency, the home builders association groups blocked that.


    Well, at least you now realise that you have a social problem rather than an enviromental one. Why do the "greenies" behave in such a way. Are those people who oppose building "energy structures" still live in caves? If not, why not" Living in houses produces pollution, so why should they be hypocrites? When I was in the USA, I was warned to be careful of being sued. We had to study litigation as part of what we were doing. Being sued takes a lot of emotional energy and also makes one very discourage. Unless a person is rich and can afford legal reperesntation, it wil be a lost cause. Now, don't take it that I am critising American society..I am not. I think that in any society, there are quirks that occur and nobody seem to have any power to stop it. So, if you tell me that you have all the above situation when trying to generate "green" energy, then I feel that it is going to be a tough one to overcome. Society sometimes creates its own downfall. If you cannot generate energy by building structures, (for whatever reasons) then I am at a loss for words. I wish you good luck for the future then. I only hope the "greenies" in Australia does not create this situation.


    So, the Engineer not only has to pull a energy bunny out of his azz. He also has to do it in such a way that doesn't offend someone. I mean, how do you do this? There's no magic energy solution. Energy has to be found, harvested, transported, utilized, and then disposed of. So, instead of ranting on engineers, how about proposing some solutions.

    Engineers? Am I ranting or blaming Engineers? I graduated in Industrial Engineering. My interest lies more with Information Technology at the moment as well as horticulture. What I meant was, with all the talk of our technology, we are still groping to find an alternative energy source. I am at the moment experimenting with Energy derived from Sugar. I feel that sugar derived from any "green matter" may be the way to go. I am not suggesting changing the sugar to alcohol, but using it directly in a reactor.
    However, I realise that many people will just laugh at me for my stupidity or ignorance, that is why i keep to myself in this. But I still plod on regardless... Being an individual, it is difficult to work full time, and also spend time researching and doing experiments. I have along way ahead of me, but I'll send my research papers to the next person who will continue when I pass on. So, I am not just talking, but doing something to solve the problem. I apologies to anyone in advance if what I wrote hurt anyone. My intention was to make people aware of our need to be sustainable if we want to survive long term future on this finite earth..



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    I think something that is lost is how resiliant the earth really is.

    We let bacteria clean up oil spills and leaks. Remember the Exxon Valdez? They said it would take 25-50 years for the area to return to normal. 10 years later, there is hardly a sign of it.

    There are more trees on earth now than we we started to keep tract, mostly because we plant them.

    Conservation comes alot from demand as much as laws. We want more eff and that goes hand in hand with clean very often.

    Humans are also part of this earth and our needs (and wants) have to be considered along with conservation.



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    You are right, FBJR. We sometimes look at this World in a "human" perspective. I say human because we are quite ignorant in the mysteries of this World (Nature). We don't understand fully the mechanisms of what the recovery process of Nature is.
    Also, there are so many things we cannot predict, guess this World is steep in mysteries that we humans will take a very long time to decipher and understand...but it makes it even more interesting precisely because of this enigma.
    I am quite confident we as humans, will survive for a very long time. As long as we keep up our good works and we'll be all right for the future. We need to be nice to each other and be peaceable, share our ideas and apirations.
    I wish all you "Happy Days ahead!!!"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosper View Post
    You are right, FBJR. We sometimes look at this World in a "human" perspective. I say human because we are quite ignorant in the mysteries of this World (Nature). We don't understand fully the mechanisms of what the recovery process of Nature is.
    Also, there are so many things we cannot predict, guess this World is steep in mysteries that we humans will take a very long time to decipher and understand...but it makes it even more interesting precisely because of this enigma.
    I am quite confident we as humans, will survive for a very long time. As long as we keep up our good works and we'll be all right for the future. We need to be nice to each other and be peaceable, share our ideas and apirations.
    I wish all you "Happy Days ahead!!!"

    I agree with all of that and dittos on the last line



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    Cattle Flatulence and SUVs arent the problem. Anyone with half a brain can see that we are still in a solar maximun instead of the sun moving into its normal solar minimum like it should have years ago. For the last 2 years here in So Ca. we have had 103F degree days in the middle of DEMEMBER. Broke the record by nearly 20F!!!! There is nothing on this earth that can change things that rapidly. Absolutley nothing. The 1st thing we have to understand is that the movement of the outer planets OUTSIDE OF THEIR NORMAL ORBITS could not be caused by anything that goes on on this planet. The unabated huge SOLAR FLARES that have happened within the last 3-4 years are not caused by anything that is going on on or in this planet. Its totally an OUTSIDE form of interference. Physics teaches us: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." ( Newtons third law). To get planets to change their orbits even a little bit requires an interdiction of huge proportions to upset the balances of all the connecting forces that hold them together. I think its safe to say that the govt has been lying to us for many years about many many subjects. Global Warming us just one of them. There is ample historical evidence that a series of comets, asteroids, and even a large planet comes into contact with our solar system every 4,000 + - years. The Ancients wrote about them in detail. The Sumerian tablets recently found have extensive detail about these comets and the destruction to our planet that was left in their wake. Other ancient texts like the Kolbrin Bible have the same type of details that were left out of our Roman inspired bibles of today. All this info is out there, One just needs to use common sense and begin to think outside the box.
    Michael



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