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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Attorney51 View Post
    Here's another question: How many of you are legally running a Haas MiniMill2 from their home/garage/etc. without requiring any sort of license or permit from the city, and what cities are you living in?
    Yeah, I'd skip asking that here. Bottom line is you need a permit and a business licence, whether you have one is another matter.

    Cities usually work on a complaint basis, which is why most people bend over backwards to keep there neighbours happy.

    As far as still being neighbours, that's the bridge that is already being burned. If the guy is really that un cooperative, I'd not feel bad.

    One caveat, make sure your client isn't violating something too as these things can flip on you once the city comes out.

    I knew someone, his neighbours called the city over something relatively minor. They ended up having to tear down all the outbuildings, a renovation etc. Actually they didn't in the end because they sold to a developer rather than deal with the mess. Of course the complainant had an illegal suite in the the house too that ended up being found.




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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    for aluminum, you can use denaturated spirit, wd40, or simply kerosene.. anyone can buy any quantity..
    these coolants, simply disposed with the chip you taking to the recycling..


    I can run in my garage all day long a compressor, inflating my car tire.. no one can shut down my compressor..
    and trust me a compressor can be very noisy.. more than a milling machine

    you need to realize, your client... least I can say, not a straight one..

    and again, that haas mill can be said hobby machine due to workenvelope what it actually capable..



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    I'm sure you can run a compressor or pursue a hobby, but at the same time you cannot run this in your garage, for example: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/178...mechanical.jpg

    This is precisely where zoning laws come into play. I think gfacer2 makes a whole lot of sense....

    Btw. kerosene, wd40 or spirit are a very, very disturbing prospect. Which one of those would cause a foul, greasy smell, similar to a car workshop?



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Don't worry about worse case scenarios for coolant. It could be biodegradable stuff too. They will all smell a bit.

    You've done enough fishing here, I'd suggest you decide with your client what your plans of action is.

    Worry about what you know not what could be possible.

    I mean, hey maybe he's milling illegal silencers and washing off his fingerprints with acetone but I doubt it.

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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    well... I really wishing for a garage that machine fit in :-)

    im not a lawyer, I just tried to pointing out even simple household stuff can be evaluated as chemical..
    the time I leaqrned the trade there was a kind of coolant what wasn't poisonus, it was looking like milk, but in summer when it started to degrading, it was smelling like dead chicken :-)

    what actually the neighbor using... only he knows it.. he might using bleach...



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    It's definitely much less nefarious than silencers. We know what's being manufactured, but I don't want to out the business here. It's quite successful though, with orders in the tens of thousands of dollars, if not more.



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    How has this being deemed as a commercial business , does he have parking stalls , a sign , store front ?? Are home based businesses not allowed in that area ? I've known numerous master carpenters who work from home building and selling anything from cupboards , adirondack chairs , to dog houses , and all is done with " industrial " wood working equipment . Another home business shouldn't be treated any different because it is metal work . The hass mini's and tool room mills are made so that they can be run at lower voltages in a garage if desired .
    Regarding concerns to health and chemicals , the only health risk that his use of coolant may pose to your client is if they go over to his place and drink it . There are no " flumes " from coolant , it is just a smell , just as oranges , grass etc have a smell . If they are overly concerned about his coolant then they should be more concerned about the vegetable oil that is in their food and the soap that they wash the dishes with afterwards , because these are major ingredients used in biodegradable coolants .
    Chemicals don't normally get used for polishing or deburring . If anything is used then its maybe varsol to clean the parts , legally available at your local paint store .

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    How has this being deemed as a commercial business , does he have parking stalls , a sign , store front ?? Are home based businesses not allowed in that area ? I've known numerous master carpenters who work from home building and selling anything from cupboards , adirondack chairs , to dog houses , and all was done with industrial wood working equipment . Another home business shouldn't be treated any different because it is metal work . The hass minis and tool room mills are made so that they can be run at lower voltages in a garage if desired .
    Regarding concerns to health and chemicals , the only health risk that his use of coolant may pose to your client is if they go over to his place and drink it . There are no flumes from coolant , it is just a smell , just as oranges , grass etc have a smell . If they are overly concerned about his coolant then they should be more concerned about the vegetable oil that they have in their food and the soap that they wash the dishes with afterwards , because these are major ingredients used in biodegradable coolants .
    Chemicals don't normally get used for polishing or deburring , if anything is used then its maybe varsol to clean the parts , legally available at your local paint store
    But technically, at least where I am, all businesses need a licence and home based businesses also need to be located where zoning allows. If they know what he's selling, he'd have a hard time arguing it's a hobby.

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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer2 View Post
    But technically, at least where I am, all businesses need a licence and home based businesses also need to be located where zoning allows. If they know what he's selling, he'd have a hard time arguing it's a hobby.

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    I don't disagree , he should have a business license and be running as a legit business . But , at the same time they need to prove that he is making what they are claiming , and if the buck is being pasted underhand then good luck proving his income as a business

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Attorney51 View Post
    It's definitely much less nefarious than silencers. We know what's being manufactured, but I don't want to out the business here. It's quite successful though, with orders in the tens of thousands of dollars, if not more.
    There are hundreds in the US doing the same as this guy is, and lots have Haas mini mills also, as for the fumes, your customer has much worse stuff in his kitchen than what this guy will have doing what he is doing, Thousands of worker in manufacturing plants, breathe this same smell, everyday, and way more concentrated than what this will be,with no ill effect, you will find that he is not making much money at all, if he only has 1 Haas mini mill, you can only make so many parts an hour, this is not a high performance production machine, so won't be making tens of thousands like you say, he's probably barely making it , if he was making it like you said, then he would not be aggressive when being approached, you may be able to shut his business down, but you won't get a cent for your trouble

    As for the finishing machines, they mostly use Dawn dishwashing liquid and water , yes the plastic and ceramic cones wear away, but is safe to wash down the drain

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Attorney51,

    I currently have a 6000 pound full size CNC in my home shop, two large lathes, a four foot by six foot CNC router, 2500 pound mill, four bench top CNC machines, 100 gallon air compressor, four polishing machines including a rotary disc finisher and a (7.2) Kilowatt induction casting machine.

    I use them all pursuing my hobbies and have never received a complaint from a neighbor. My shop is insulated very well including the overhead doors, machines are not run in the early a.m or after dusk.

    Who the heck wants a pissed off neighbor?

    Welcome to the Zone,

    Jeff...

    Last edited by jalessi; 03-10-2016 at 12:14 AM. Reason: Added Dialog.
    Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    I don't disagree , he should have a business license and be running as a legit business . But , at the same time they need to prove that he is making what they are claiming , and if the buck is being pasted underhand then good luck proving his income as a business
    It is easy in the US to have a Business license, an LLC costs $100 a year in TN, and if you register with your local City office that your Home is your registered office all is good, he could easily say that his workshop is just a Hobby shop also, and still work 12 hours a day

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    There are hundreds in the US doing the same as this guy is, and lots have Haas mini mills also, as for the fumes, your customer has much worse stuff in his kitchen than what this guy will have doing what he is doing, Thousands of worker in manufacturing plants, breathe this same smell, everyday, and way more concentrated than what this will be,with no ill effect, you will find that he is not making much money at all, if he only has 1 Haas mini mill, you can only make so many parts an hour, this is not a high performance production machine, so won't be making tens of thousands like you say, he's probably barely making it , if he was making it like you said, then he would not be aggressive when being approached, you may be able to shut his business down, but you won't get a cent for your trouble

    As for the finishing machines, they mostly use Dawn dishwashing liquid and water , yes the plastic and ceramic cones wear away, but is safe to wash down the drain
    Mactec54,

    I would ponder the volume of home shops doing the same sort of work numbers in the thousands if not tens of thousands.

    Just look at the membership stats here on the CNCZone and The Hobby-Machinist, then start counting the street rod guys and the home gunsmiths etc...

    Jeff...

    Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Just for the record, didn't Steven Jobs and Stephen Wozniak start Apple out of a garage?

    Jeff...

    Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It is easy in the US to have a Business license, an LLC costs $100 a year in TN, and if you register with your local City office that your Home is your registered office all is good, he could easily say that his workshop is just a Hobby shop also, and still work 12 hours a day
    Yup , it's not rocket science in doing so and If the guy has any kind of paper trail then he'd be a fool not to have a license . I run legit because theres such a digital trail of my dealings , and I wouldn't dare take the risk of having the tax man standing at my door step with his hand out .
    Otherwise , since inspections or those sort of things are a process which contain notices , then I could get a few strong guys , a pallet jack , a trailer , and have a car parked in the garage within a day lol

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by jalessi View Post
    Mactec54,

    I would ponder the volume of home shops doing the same sort of work numbers in the thousands if not tens of thousands.

    Just look at the membership stats here on the CNCZone and The Hobby-Machinist, then start counting the street rod guys and the home gunsmiths etc...

    Jeff...
    That was only related to having Haas Mini Mills, yes there are thousands, with similar equipment, and much more noise, than what this setup would be doing

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Attorney51 View Post
    Here's another question: How many of you are legally running a Haas MiniMill2 from their home/garage/etc. without requiring any sort of license or permit from the city, and what cities are you living in?
    That's pathetic. You call yourself an attorney and ask such questions? Surely even in the USA, the land of freedom... (ha... ha... ha...) ANYONE is allowed to run a mill, even larger than a Haas Mini, in their own homes perfectly legally. The running of a machine in itself shouldn't be illegal, it is HOW you run it and for what purpose that may make it illegal, no matter if that is a Haas Mini or a small Dremel or whatever. Surely you are allowed to have a hobby even if your neighbor hates that activity. As an attorney you should be aware of this.

    Last edited by A_Camera; 03-10-2016 at 03:30 AM.


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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    there you go :-))

    not the chemicals are the problem....

    attorney wrote """"

    It's definitely much less nefarious than silencers. We know what's being manufactured, but I don't want to out the business here. It's quite successful though, with orders in the tens of thousands of dollars, if not more.

    """"
    the main problem is neighbor can earn some money..
    that is what really embarrassing for your client...

    your client need to open an illegal lathe shop :-) that will be the real revenge :-).

    ================================================== =================================

    Acamera

    exactly what I was thinking..
    isn't it is America ? if I have the money then I can buy a submarine and build a pond on my yard for..



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer2 View Post
    One caveat, make sure your client isn't violating something too as these things can flip on you once the city comes out.
    That's an important point... on the other hand, if that is the case, than the attorneys will earn even more. It seems to be an endless process in the USA, everyone sue everyone and the attorneys make big money.



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    Default Re: Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    and the attorneys make big money.
    except for the lawyers who need to do their research and get legal advise over an open forum , I see them as being more towards the desperate side

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?

Living next to an (illegal) milling shop. What are the dangers?