[RFQ] - 5" Aluminum UFO Model

[O1OO1O11]

i am making a prototype with the possibility of making a hundred or so. the item is an aluminum UFO that is 5" wide and 1.5" tall. it will be 2 pieces that need to screw together.







in the bottom of the base goes a simple magnet assembly that is part of a captured magnetic levitation base system a company i work with makes:









the UFO would have to have a smooth finish and look like a quality model. the problem is that pro machinists in my area love to waaaaaaay overcharge for little hobby things like this. i need a guy who does it on the side, will care about the end result, and charges tinker prices. i have no problem paying someone for their time and skill, but the unit itself will sell for $150-$200 and i can spend about 1/4 - 1/3 of that on the disc only. it would probably be a limited run. i would like to add the UFO to the list of items i will be selling like the:

sterling silver meditation piece



globe



and a few other things like business card holders and video game related stuff. it would be super cool to see such an iconic disc in UFOlogy perfectly hovering 1.5" over the mirror finished stainless steel base lit up with 8 LEDs. i know it's an odd request - but i know alot of you are hobbyists and a few of you machine your own stuff. PM me for further details and thanks in advance...

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[edit] I do not do CAD design (i'm a photographer lol) but i can do Photoshop-type stuff. i have a DXF/DWG file of the model and the end result would look something like this 2-piece design with the black parts milled out:

[O1OO1O11]

a great big THANKS to everyone who has responded so far. i really find this technology fascinating and will be thrilled to see some prototypes.

here is a low-res flash animation of it rotating:

Flip Disc

[O1OO1O11]

anyone else want to take a stab at this thing? i know it's the holidays... i would appreciate anyone willing to knock out a prototype for < $100 for me so that i could fine tune it and show it to the base manufacturer...

- Hyde (O1OO1O11)

[fastolds]

Send the dxf/dwg file to hobbymachine at mchsi.com

[Dualkit]

A little bit of advice from someone who would be waaaaaaaaay too expensive, but is probably more knowledgeable than those willing to work for beer and pizza. To achieve the finish you desire I would suggest specifying either domestic 6061 or preferably 7075 aluminum. Using Cheap Chinese 6061 aluminum that most hobby guys buy is not going to finish and polish up the way you desire. That being said if this is machined from solid the right materials are going to cost $12 a piece. Also your design is not friendly to the quick cheap machining you desire. It needs to be split into 4 pieces, use the 2 you already have, make the antennae separate and use the antennae hole as a mounting point for a machining operation. At the 5" diameter it needs to be split in two. The way it is designed it is machinable, but VERY SLOWLY. I think it would be best to see if someone who spins metal could make most of the pieces, that would drastically reduce material costs. I would be amazed if anyone would make you a $100 prototype, and if someone would for that price, what it would look like.

[O1OO1O11]

Originally Posted by Dualkit A little bit of advice from someone who would be waaaaaaaaay too expensive, but is probably more knowledgeable than those willing to work for beer and pizza. To achieve the finish you desire I would suggest specifying either domestic 6061 or preferably 7075 aluminum. Using Cheap Chinese 6061 aluminum that most hobby guys buy is not going to finish and polish up the way you desire. That being said if this is machined from solid the right materials are going to cost $12 a piece. Also your design is not friendly to the quick cheap machining you desire. It needs to be split into 4 pieces, use the 2 you already have, make the antennae separate and use the antennae hole as a mounting point for a machining operation. At the 5" diameter it needs to be split in two. The way it is designed it is machinable, but VERY SLOWLY. I think it would be best to see if someone who spins metal could make most of the pieces, that would drastically reduce material costs. I would be amazed if anyone would make you a $100 prototype, and if someone would for that price, what it would look like.

i have received several PM's from various people with great insight into making this thing. from spinning lathes to casting a 'dense urethane resin impregnated with AL powder' to stamping, etc. the reason i thought to do it in aluminum is that it is closest to what the UFO looks like (semi-polished aluminum) and i don't want something painted that could scratch or chip off. i want this to 'feel' like a quality item - not a cheap 'toy'. i fly RC helicopters and see alot of machined aluminum and titanium parts from both manufacturers and hobbyists that (quality-wise) really look like something i want it made of.

i know spinning metal could work - but it would be too thin and have a very noticeable seam on the edge. also, there is another issue at hand. this device works because there is a large ring magnet in the base with 4 electro magnets in the center. the ring repels the larger platform magnet while the electro magnets pull the smaller center magnet. then circuitry keeps the field from oscillating. what's cool about this design is that you can have vertical levitation and even upside down levitation - it truly is 'captured' in the field.

but - you can't put anything ferrous on the magnet platform. this means no steel or anything that a magnet would stick to or it could disrupt the field. so i need a non-ferrous light metal/plastic for this design. plus - it can take a few times to get used to hovering the platform. the pull of the ring is VERY strong on the neodymium platform so i would like to have something durable enough to withstand it sucking down hard to the base when someone is trying to get it to float.

remember - 400 grams = 14.1 oz. that's more than a full can of soda. i think it should easily hold this design - even if it weren't milled out. most of the UFO is on the thin edge (and may be too thin for a lathe from what other people have said).

[mactec54]

Hi O1OO1O11

PM sent

[Donkey Hotey]

I think that both parts could easily be held by an expanding 5C collet, from the inside of the saucer (on the 30.5 and 50.5 mm bores). Here's what I see:

Main body

• 1st operation: 6x1.5" disk of aluminum goes into a lathe chuck, held around the outside. Machine the inside pockets and any internal threads. This could also be done in a CNC mill and thread milled.
• 2nd operation: flip the disk around, now holding from an expanding collet on the inside bore, turn all the exposed features on both sides.

Bottom cap

• 1st operation: chuck the blank material from the OD, bore all of the internal features just like the main body.
• 2nd operation: another expanding collet, this time using the 50.5mm bore to hold it. Again, turn the external features and cut the external threads.

This would represent $50-75 investment in expanding soft collets (machined to size for this job), as well as design time and programming time. What you have is a solid concept but, the design remains to be done. There are a bunch of hours remaining in solidifying that drawing into something machinable, along with making up your own thread.

It's also almost guaranteed to be a CNC job, for a lathe with at least an 8" chuck. IMO: if should also have a final operation to machine the ports or whatever you want to call those black rectangles at the top. Otherwise, it's just a turned disk. I think it's going to take more gingerbread in the design or nobody is going to want it.

Then when the programming comes, that's going to be a lot of arcs, splines and lines that somebody has to calculate...or they need to have access to a decent CAM program to do the programming.

So that's the problem; there is too much up-front investment for somebody to do all of that work for $100.

If you're willing to order 10 saucer assemblies up front, I would do the job for $75 each. After the first order, they'd be $50 per saucer, in lots of 10. I would retain all rights to the tooling and all of the CAD models. IE: if you later want to give the work to somebody else, it's on you to reverse engineer the shape and get all of the design and tooling work done again.

Business takes risk and investment. I took the risk and investment in buying all of my machines, software and tooling. If you want to make a go of these items, you have to take a risk too. Nobody is going to take the tooling and time risk for only $100. Order more up front and give them a chance to recover some of that time and tooling investment and you might get a bite. It also puts some pressure on you to actually sell the items.

OK, cue the guys who are pissed that I quoted publicly.
(I don't care if I get the job or not but, I'd get off my butt and help you for the quoted prices above)

[O1OO1O11]

wow Donkey, that came off a little hostile.

i am taking plenty of risk already, sir. being the ONLY guy in the USA with access to these maglev bases and purchasing thousands of dollars worth of them on a hunch that they'll sell well - as long as i have enough cool stuff on top to 'levitate'. i am getting them directly from the inventor and his (small) production company.

i spent 60k on my low-altitude aerial photography business (using industrial RC helicopters) only to be shut down with everyone else by the FAA 5 years after i got into it until they come up with ways to regulate the civilian UAV market... risk and i are best friends

umm - i understand making it worthwhile to someone and purchasing several. i believe i will sell a hundred or so of these UFOs, and meditating silver guys, and some other stuff in the pipeline (like this):



it rotates once a minute and displays the time of 4 different cities (Paris, Tokyo, New York, Los Angeles,) in front of a little globe inside the center of the pyramid.

you see, the UFO is not my main investment, it's just a piece of it. i would like to hook up with someone here who i could order a few at a time (like you said - 10 or so) as the orders come in. who knows - it may be a bigger hit than i am anticipating.

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to those of you who have answered me - THANK YOU. i came to this forum to find someone who can make me a decent proof-of-concept item and i believe it will definitely be one of you guys who took the time to answer me and help me out.

- Ben

[MyCattMaxx]

What Donkey Hotey said was in my opinion was not meant as hostile but a clear look at the facts. Nobody will invest in tools and work for free. Try it yourself.

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by O1OO1O11 wow Donkey, that came off a little hostile.

Not at all, Ben. As posted above, it was just a look at the facts as I see them. I'm trying to convey what is going through other people's heads as they look at the job. You're still hunting for bids, I'm trying to explain what the challenges are and why you might not have found them. Maybe one of those parameters is easier for you to give on than others.

Lets say you want one, for $100. Somebody still has to source the material, do the CAD design, do the programming, order the expanding collets and do all the setup and programming. After $50 in collets and $20 in materials, how much is left for profit? Even if the guy was doing it completely as a favor, they're at risk of paying you for the privilege of making this if they scrap even one piece of raw stock with an 'oops' in the program.

There will be iterations of the product as you hone in on what you want exactly. Since you're not really a design guy, part of the suggestions and design development are going to rest on whoever signs up to help you with this. The design part alone could eat up 4-5 hours (and that's optimistic). The programming could eat another couple of hours. Setup time, maybe an hour. What's a fair rate after it's all done? $5/hour? $3/hour? That's about all that's left in a $100 one-off part with $50-75 in raw materials.

With an initial order of 10 pieces, there will be enough raw material purchased to cover a mistake or two. The first 1-2 parts are often scrapped in any CNC job. You really don't know how everything is going to work until you're actually running them. Once it's all set, tuned-up and running, the parts get cheaper. That's just the reality of CNC machining.

I don't honestly expect you to award me with the job. I'm just trying to help you to understand things from the other side of the cutter.

[Dualkit]

Expanding collet? What kind of machine do you have that doesn't have a reverse clamping function on the chuck? The part is a cool concept, I am pretty sure in this economy someone will produce an inexpensive prototype in hopes of this thing selling. I just hope if it does, that person is rewarded with a production run. I stopped doing favors a long time ago. I won't complain about open quoting as I have no interest in this job. Once someone mentions about people charging "too much" I run for the hills. People expect machine shops to charge an hourly labor rate equal to what a
top machinist makes this days. Funny how no one complains when a plumber charges $75 an hour, and his only investment is a truck and a couple $1,000s worth of hand tools, plus his years of training. Small shop owners have all that plus $100,000 of machinery and up, and people expect us to work for $30 an hour? Problem is too many people are
donating time, I think there are some guys working 10 hour days and charging for 4 hours. I lose a lot of work to guys not charging for programming and even some set-ups, I sure hope we can reach the bottom soon and get going the other direction.