Just wanted to know

[phills25]

Hi, I'm a new user to this forum but have been to it a few times to help troubleshoot problems with machines and discovered it can be a great forum. But my question I wanted to know is how much someone with my experience/knowledge would average. A little over 2 years ago I saw my first cnc lathe, the day I started a job at a shop that my father, a machinist for 30 years, works at. I obviously had no prior experience ( was an electrician for 6 years), and never went to college. In those 2 plus years I have been working my butt off. After 3 months of day shift training on how to operate the machines i went to the 2nd/3rd shift, and until 5 months ago there was only one other guy working 3rd shift with me now 2 other guys. My hours where 2pm-12am 4 days a week, but we have been fortunate in this economy and now I work 12pm-12am 4 days and sometimes till later.
My company is small, 9 people including the one owner that works on the floor with us, and the other owner who is sales/shipping guy and one shipping/material handler.
The lathes we have are 2 traub 17's (Fanuc controls, swiss sliding head stock), 2 traub tnl 26 (Fanuc controls, swiss sliding head stock. just got these machines the one i got running 2 weeks ago, and just finished programming the 2nd and started setup just last night), 4 eurotechs (biglia, e42sly, sly, 735. Fanuc controls, turning machines), 3 Stars (Fanuc controls, SR32, SR20, SA. Sliding Headstock), 1 Deco(don't know much about this old machine) 1 Enc24 (don't know much about this old machine only one guy can set up and write programs for deco and enc), 2 wickman (old automatic screw machines). We have one mill that we purchased 1 year ago a Hurco (Mill using conversational controls). I can operate and maintain every machine mentioned (screw machines I can only load and start there is only one guy that sets up and maintains it and only 3 of us can load it and start it). I can set up every lathe mentioned except enc, deco and screw machines. I can write programs from scratch for all the lathes besides previous exceptions. We don't use cad programs we hand write all programs either at the machine or on the computer in notepad. We write our own programs for every part we manufacture (I just recently learned that most companies have their programs sent to them from the customer, wheres the fun in that?) I am starting to mess around with Master Cam but realizing I'm going to need to take a class can only use it to figure out angles and radius's. I write my programs using regular g/m code, variables, macros, parametric programing, can write canned cycles, mill using C,Y,Z,X-Axis, basically if it can be written I can do it, and if I don't know how I'll figure it out that night or A.S.A.P.
At my company everybody does the same things, some are more lazy then others so I should say are expected to do the same things, including the one owner who is out there on the floor with us. We all do quality control, set up the machines (one guy who has been there for over a year still struggles with this but tries). Me, my father, and the owner are the only ones that can write programs on the Traub's and only 5 of the 9 can write programs in general. We all sweep, mop, cut up the stock ( 2 of the machines only have 3 ft barloaders, 1 is only 6ft).
Since I work nights with only 2 other employees and have 15 machines we each run 5 machines when all are running. When we have a set up we take on usually only 2 other machines plus set up and the other two split up the 2 other machines.
I have figured out problems on the machines that others have not been able too. One problem an outside maintenance company took one of our eurotech turrets apart to fix a hydrolic leak couldn't figure out a problem they caused after putting it back together and worked on the problem for two weeks. I thought the machine was still being worked on for the leak, when i found out it had a problem i fixed it that night, took me 8 hours but figured it out ( when u unplug the parts catcher and plug it back in, in the machine cabinet it erases the parameter and they need to be reset.) Yes I pat myself on the back for that one.
Sorry for the essay and thank you for reading it if you did, I wanted people to know that I do know my stuff, I have much to learn, it seems like machining has an endless amount to learn. I'm happy with where I work but think I'm way underpaid for what I know and didn't want people think I could only inspect a part and make an offset. Benefit wise I get free health insurance, with prescription, 10 days vaca, and 3 floater holidays.
Just would like to know how much you would pay someone with this experience/knowledge or how much you would think I am making, maybe I'm wrong and am not underpaid but wont know if I dont ask. Thanks Again.

[Dualkit]

Where do you live? The cost of living in the area makes a big difference in your pay. The economy for the machining industry is horrible right now, so basically what your worth is what it would cost to replace you, sad but true. Your post was kind of long, but I take it you only have 2 years experience. Even if you are the next Einstein, that is what people see if you applied for another job,
sad but true. I would say even in higher paying So Cal, at 2 years experience
your looking at $10-$15 an hour.

[kling8]

I have been machining for 10 years at a few different shops doing a wide range of parts, currently I'm the programmer, set up and inspector, we will leave it at that to make this short. The one thing that I have found is that machinists are under paid, maybe I cant find the right shop, but I have yet to see pay that is close to what I'm worth, hard times, the work has been there just not the pay.

[phills25]

I'm in the Philly area. I'm not disgruntled or anything, I love my job and am Happy to have one. I was just wondering if I'm getting paid what I am worth. I understand experience is everything in this trade and I am lucky that I work with my father and his good friend who have been working as machinists for 30 plus years so I get their lectures all the time (if I wanted one or not). So I feel that my experience is greater than most with two years, however I do understand that most employers measure experience by start date to current date. From your post I am making the higher of your payscale and am due for yearly raise next month. we get raises every sept. but also my boss will give them throughout the year if he thinks we deserve them, and since being there i have had 5 raises.

[phills25]

Hmmm, good insight. I really enjoy what I do, mostly programming and the problem solving it brings, and set ups and want to make a career of it. I'm willing to go to school to learn more if I'll earn more as I'm only 25. But if the punch isn't worth the squeeze then maybe I'll have to rethink some things.

[cncjunky]

Originally Posted by phills25 Hmmm, good insight. I really enjoy what I do, mostly programming and the problem solving it brings, and set ups and want to make a career of it. I'm willing to go to school to learn more if I'll earn more as I'm only 25. But if the punch isn't worth the squeeze then maybe I'll have to rethink some things.

Experience = knowledge School = teers, empty wallet, and a waste of time

[timmydabull]

around here when i was looking for a job i couldnt get an offer more than $10 hr,so i had no choice bu to go into business for myself.

for 10 years i was in the construction business and thought i was making money at average $3k a week.

starting to get close to that in this industry but that is a drop in the bucket to what some guys are making.

i had a hvac guy come out and look at our air conditioner and what he told me has put me in a state of depression ever since,i cant believe how much money these guys are making and it just ruins my motivation as i realize unless im charging money like there charging i will never get where i wanta be.

they wanted $2500 to do 3 hours job and supply a $300 part.
option 2 was $8000 for 8 hours work and a $1500 part.

dammn we are in the wrong business

[sti2011]

When you look at all that we have to know in this trade to be good at, it it gets worse............
Print reading
Qouting ability.
Engineering knowledge (how the hell to make that widget) or ("this is definetly not what they need")
People skills
Management skills for the Foreman and Supervisors....
Purchasing skills
Organization skills (get stock, tooling, fixtures etc.)
Programming which includes Math, Metallurgy, Computers, Software Knowledge, Spatial Concepts, Imagination, Experience, etc, etc ,etc,
Mechanical skills
Hand-Eye coordination (dry run)
Hand skills, deburring, polishing, etc
Inspection ability
Troubleshooting ability when it doesn't work or the machine craps out........
Assembly?
Chemical knowledge, coolants, oils, plating, assembly glues, compounds , thread lockers,
Safety.
This is a very involved trade at the upper levels and unfortunatly will never pay what it should. It is sad when you get paid half of what the engineer that drew the part, that would never work, or was way too expensive, took you less time to re-design, get it approved, order stock, wait for it, program it, make it, and ship it.
It was not too long ago that a really good machinist was upper middle class to even lower upper class. Where have those days gone and why?

[cncjunky]

Originally Posted by sti2011 When you look at all that we have to know in this trade to be good at, it it gets worse............ Print reading Qouting ability. Engineering knowledge (how the hell to make that widget) or ("this is definetly not what they need") People skills Management skills for the Foreman and Supervisors.... Purchasing skills Organization skills (get stock, tooling, fixtures etc.) Programming which includes Math, Metallurgy, Computers, Software Knowledge, Spatial Concepts, Imagination, Experience, etc, etc ,etc, Mechanical skills Hand-Eye coordination (dry run) Hand skills, deburring, polishing, etc Inspection ability Troubleshooting ability when it doesn't work or the machine craps out........ Assembly? Chemical knowledge, coolants, oils, plating, assembly glues, compounds , thread lockers, Safety. This is a very involved trade at the upper levels and unfortunatly will never pay what it should. It is sad when you get paid half of what the engineer that drew the part, that would never work, or was way too expensive, took you less time to re-design, get it approved, order stock, wait for it, program it, make it, and ship it. It was not too long ago that a really good machinist was upper middle class to even lower upper class. Where have those days gone and why?

1 simple answer- stupid Americans
That's why, dumb as$ greedy lazy ******** who shipped are whole strength of the country to china and all the other 3rd world countries. That's why, no argument from anyone can dispute that. Only one who would dispute the fact is a total scum bag "politician,hippy,greedy ceo and etc." or a overseas worker. No true proud American would ever dispute that. If you have anything negative to say to me in regards to that is the lowest of the lows.

[sti2011]

Kind of an angry response. But nonetheless, in part, true. Alot of our "lost" work is coming back to us because unfortanatly the Dollar is worth **** abroad, and fortunatly, the quality abroad, is ****. Manufacturing the largest roller coaster in the World, just jump on for the scariest, most aggravating ride if your life..............

[HuFlungDung]

Cheap labor is part of the problem with low wages, I'd agree, however, a fair amount of the blame rests on the never ending pursuit of automation through mechanization. Those Chinese workers are just as capable as Americans, of pushing a button in an automated system.

The economy of the world can only absorb so and so much output, when there is excess capacity, the price falls, just as surely as it does when grain, pigs, chickens or cows are over produced. Farmers just never seem to figure this out, and neither do machinists

The last 20 years or so, a lot of computerized manufacturing has come into existence. A lot of that old equipment stays around, still functioning. The newer, latest and greatest stuff can maybe outproduce the old machines by double or more, but adding the new equipment just adds to the productive capacity of the world, and thus the prices must fall. There just is not enough income around to buy what can be produced. There is not enough cheap energy to allow us all to have all that we want either.