New Start Up Shop

[Hitachi_man]

Hello all, I am researching the idea of starting up a small shop in Wichita, KS. I am looking at buying a 3 axis CNC Mill to start with for machining parts for my service company, but also picking up contracts to keep the machine busy to pay for itself. The machine I am looking at has 30x12x16 travels. I was wondering if any of you out there could tell me what you are seeing as far as work that is available, biding quotes (i.e. standard shop rates), etc.. Any info would be helpfull with the decsion process. Thanks

Josh
a.k.a. Hitachi Man

[Ken_Shea]

Josh,
Here is my take on your question, no matter what size machine you get there is always going to be that rare job that will not fit, many of these jobs with some fixturing considerations can be handled, that said, 30x12x16 is a nice size mill that will accommodate the vast majority of the jobs you are likely to see.

If you are just getting into machining then shop rates will not be particularly relevant since one cannot charge for learning so you will be putting in a lot more hours then you will be able to charge.

What I have seen from job shops hourly charges for general machining seem to range from from $40-$65 per hour, hobby shops are less.

Ken

[Hitachi_man]

I appreciate your input. I agree there is definately going to be a learning curve with starting up and running a shop. As far as the work goes there is no problem there I have 15 years experience as a setup/machinist. My main focus with taking on the contracts is going to be to keep the spindle running and pay for the machine. If all goes well I wouldn't mind getting a couple more machines in the future, but this one is going to be a test, or feeler if you will. It's funny but I'm excited at the thought of buying this machine. There is alot to buy, build, and get though. Just hoping that the work is out there to suport the purchase!!

[Ken_Shea]

Well Josh, having been on this planet a few years I can say with out any reservations that when one is all excited about buying something that this is not a wise time to purchase. Let that excitement settle down first and then consider that purchase further.

Not that I ever paid any attention to that advice mind you

Still good advice.

Ken

[MnotLyon]

Originally Posted by Hitachi_man I appreciate your input. I agree there is definately going to be a learning curve with starting up and running a shop. As far as the work goes there is no problem there I have 15 years experience as a setup/machinist. My main focus with taking on the contracts is going to be to keep the spindle running and pay for the machine. If all goes well I wouldn't mind getting a couple more machines in the future, but this one is going to be a test, or feeler if you will. It's funny but I'm excited at the thought of buying this machine. There is alot to buy, build, and get though. Just hoping that the work is out there to suport the purchase!!

The work is out there. The real question is; Can you find it?

There is a big step from being a machinest, to being a shop owner. Do you already know how to quote? have you done it in the past? Do you have any contacts? Are you available during regular business hours? What's your boss going to say when he finds out what you're doing? What do you specialize in? How will you find work when there isn't any? Can you get the right kind of power for your machine?

[jackson]

These are all very good things to look at. i would defently have at least one customer lined up befor i bought the machin "if it is possible" that way you atleast have some work to make the payments and its not coming out of your pocket. the next thing make sure you get a tooling package with the machine tools, and tool holders arnt cheep. and make sure you get a machine that you are familer with not one that you will have to relearn.

[besc]

Are you still servicing Hitachi machines. I have a HT20 lathe that needs help. The Phone# you gave on the home page does not work. My email is besc@northcoast.com

[WA Toolman]

I tried to go to your linked site to see what you had and if I could give you any advice, but this is what I got:

Unable to connect Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at kmtscnc.com. * The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments. * If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection. * If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

Is the link right?
I have owned several machine/ tool&die shops. Startups, one man band, and one fairly large operation.
Are you starting with a Hitachi VMC? What controls?
Have you any experience programming? Are you using MasterCam or similar? Are you planning on tooling or production? I'm assuming short runs but I could be wrong.
Do you have a Business Plan or is this part of working out the details?
Good luck on your venture.

[vacpress]

another concern.. what good is 1 cnc mill without ALOT of periphery equipment? Most jobs will also need a combination of operations..

remember, a decent metal cutting bandsaw is $1500 at least, a decent surface grinder, used, is still like $3000, power convertors, TOOLING, precision setup tools and measurement tools, cmm or other verification methods...

it isnt just a mill.. if i was looking for commercial work, i would look for a shop that can 'do everything i might need'..

just a thought,

robert

[joecnc1234]

If you have 15 years experience machining, I would assume you have experience in most aspects that you will need. I would look for a large machine shop to get offload work from, that way you can have them do first article inspection on their own parts and loan you tooling and gaging. If you give them a fair hourly rate they in my experience will be happy to give you any support necessary. I do off-load work for a company I worked for they even give me programs and fixtures. In the beginning I struggled to keep up but with perserverence and long hours you can make it happen. I would suggest a manual lathe and mill so you can keep the cnc spindle turning. and don't buy anything until you absolutly need it, save as much as you can and never hire friends or family. but above all go for it you only live once there is nothing like the satisfaction of watching your own machine making chips, then buying more machines. good times

[springlakecnc]

Hi Josh,

You may be far enough away from Detroit to make a go of it.

If you buy a cnc mill for job shop work, you will need two, due to, cnc's always break down during the rush job you promiced to your customer.

If you are only going to have one machine, make it a machining center with tool changer. Stay away from quill machines with 5" travel. If your reamer is 4" longer than your center drill, that leaves 1" of useable z axis travel!

If you say: I can get by with a knee mill, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a machine that was a manual machine with a quill kit conversion. I know, I made and installed hundreds of them. They are nothing but trouble. By the way, I don't install them anymore. These are listed in tooling catalogs, with brand names, and I used to color match the paint so it would look pro, BUT, you are in for a backlash nightmare down the road, trust me. If it looks like it may have been a manual machine converted, IT IS! so beware! If it has hand cranks, BEWARE! Also, don't fall for that 2 axis cnc. They are popular items for someone that has never owned a cnc, but you will be kicking yourself in a couple of weeks if you buy a 2 axis cnc. The salesman shows you how easy they are to program, well, so is 3 axis once you get into it. Also new cnc owners are suckers for cnc knee mills because they look like that bridgeport you spent years running. Buy a bed mill!

The way used prices are today, pennies on the dollar, you should be able to find a 6 year old machine for cheap. Find one that hasn't been in heavy production. Remember the estimated life on a lot of electrical components is 10 years, so if the machine is a 1996, its days of trouble free running is over. Some machines go longer, some don't. Don't pay big money for older machines. Sometimes a older cnc machine in cherry condition, with a new cnc retrofit may be the answer. Im talking new axis drive motors, axis drives and the complete cnc. A new computer hooked to the rs232 of a older machine is not a retrofit, its just a easy way of getting machining programs into a old controller.

[Jedi]

Do you quote jobs by the hour or do you quote how much per part?