kanalog+kflop+amplifier setup question

[k-linkz]

Hi guys,

i would need some clarification about the setup.

i have a servo motor with encoder and the amplifier.

the power and the encoder go to the amplifier.

kanalog can control the motor.

from my understanding the close loop finish at the amplifier level.

how can i connect the encoder to the kanalog. should i buy another encoder or should i bypass the encoder from the amplifier to the kanalog.

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[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

What kind of amplifier do you have? (Include manual/specifications if possible).

What kind of motor do you have? Brushless?

In most cases where the amplifier does 3 phase commutation and velocity control based on the encoder the amplifier has an incremental encoder output.

Regards

[k-linkz]

we have 2 setup that would like to try.
sanyo denki 65B015DDK01 model
the other CTB 43P7GS1B with SPINDLE MOTOR CTB-43P7ZGA15 - 45M5JP

from the tech file both can be control with -10v +10v analog input, hence the kanalog + kflop . i'm looking more for a control position control.

the encoder is plug into the amplifier.

should i remove the encoder from the amplifier and plug it to the kanalog in order to move the close loop closer or just leave it in the amplifier

[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

After Googling for your Amplifier Manual I find your link here on cnczone where you list the manual!
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo-...-3-config.html

No you can not disconnect the encoder from the Amplifier. If you do the drive won't be able to commutate the motor.

Figure 4-1a shows encoder signal outputs available on the Amplifier. See below.




HTH
Regards

[k-linkz]

Hi k-linkz,

After Googling for your Amplifier Manual I find your link here on cnczone where you list the manual!
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo-...-3-config.html

No you can not disconnect the encoder from the Amplifier. If you do the drive won't be able to commutate the motor.

Figure 4-1a shows encoder signal outputs available on the Amplifier. See below.




HTH
Regards

ok so to sum it up.

just the output from the +- 10v analog from the kanalog to the amplifier and encoder stays with the amplifier CN2.

then you take the encoder node 18 signal encoder and you put them to the kanalog input encoder. .


in sum


servo motor ============>servo drive ====> position command pulse input note8 =========> kanalog +- 10v analog output
servo motor encoder =======>servo drive cn2 ====>signal encoder output note18 ====> kanalog encoder input


thanks

[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

No. You must also connect the encoder output from the amplifier to Kanalog. Otherwise KFLOP+Kanalog wouldn't know or be able to control the position.

The amplifier will be using the encoder to perform motor commutation and to control the motor velocity. KFLOP will control the position by observing the encoder position and commanding the amplifier to move at some velocity to move the position to where it should be.

HTH
Regards

[k-linkz]

yeah that what i meant.

analog output JP11 terminal to position command pulse input note8 on the servo amplifier position input.

and from the servo amplifier encoder output note18 (the red big circle) to JP1/JP2 encoder input kanalog

right ? or am i misunderstanding

[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

No. You should understand that +/-10V analog velocity commands are something completely different than 5V step pulses.

You would connect the Kanalog DAC to the amplifier velocity input.

Please take care as wiring mistakes can damage KFLOP/Kanalog or the Amplifier. You might draw up a wiring diagram for us to check.

There are some wiring diagrams on our wiki that may help although not exactly your configuration:
Dynomotion

Regards

[k-linkz]

ok I'll draw up a setting before putting ON.

thanks the help Tom.

[k-linkz]

Hi Tom,

I've put the jpeg is this how it's suppose to be.
Also something that it's not clear to me.

how do you control the drive to move. is it via the velocity +/- 10 v ? so it can be control via +/- 10 v velocity or a 5 volt step/direction positionning (like the gecko drives for example)

or do i need both ?

thanks again for your assistance.

[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

That's the basic idea. But you left out many details and the image is not cropped properly and too low resolution to read clearly.

Yes Kanalog would control the drive via the +/-10V analog signal to the drive's velocity input.

Step/Dir position control vs +/-10V analog velocity control is an either/or situation. Your drive appears to support both. I prefer the analog method closed loop back to the controller. Step/Dir might have been a simpler method for you.

Regards

[k-linkz]

Hi k-linkz,

That's the basic idea. But you left out many details and the image is not cropped properly and too low resolution to read clearly.

Yes Kanalog would control the drive via the +/-10V analog signal to the drive's velocity input.

Step/Dir position control vs +/-10V analog velocity control is an either/or situation. Your drive appears to support both. I prefer the analog method closed loop back to the controller. Step/Dir might have been a simpler method for you.

Regards

Hi Tom,

by "you left out many details" i'm assuming you meant limit switchs, stop switch , etc.. (yeah sorry about that i was in a hurry).
I defiantly agree with you "the analog method closed loop back to the controller" is by far more better. and that the way i'll go with.

one thing i'm left puzzle is the Step/Dir method usually they have one input for the Step and one Input for the Direction, but this one at the Position Command pulse input has foward movement pulse and backward movement pulse. I don't think this drive can do Step/Dir.


Thank you once again for clarifying position control vs velocity control to me.

[TomKerekes]

Hi k-linkz,

by "you left out many details" i'm assuming you meant limit switchs, stop switch , etc.. (yeah sorry about that i was in a hurry).

No. I meant you only took the time to draw one line and not to show how to make the 7 connections.

one thing i'm left puzzle is the Step/Dir method usually they have one input for the Step and one Input for the Direction, but this one at the Position Command pulse input has foward movement pulse and backward movement pulse. I don't think this drive can do Step/Dir.

Well you have decided not to go that method anyway. But KFLOP would support that method. We refer to it as CW/CCW pulsing. Step/Dir, CW/CCW, or quadrature are 3 different methods that are commonly used to tell a drive to move a step forward or backward. CW/CCW has an advantage as it removes direction setup timing issues. Quadrature is really the best as it is lower frequency and tends to offer glitch resistance. Here is a figure from our manual:

Step and Direction Setup



Regards

[k-linkz]

Hi k-linkz,

No. I meant you only took the time to draw one line and not to show how to make the 7 connections.

Well you have decided not to go that method anyway. But KFLOP would support that method. We refer to it as CW/CCW pulsing. Step/Dir, CW/CCW, or quadrature are 3 different methods that are commonly used to tell a drive to move a step forward or backward. CW/CCW has an advantage as it removes direction setup timing issues. Quadrature is really the best as it is lower frequency and tends to offer glitch resistance. Here is a figure from our manual:

Step and Direction Setup



Regards

Perfect. Thanks Tom much appreciate the clarifications. And your patience
Thanks.