My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit


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Thread: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

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    Default My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Hi Guys,

    I've had a lot of people ask me details on my Kflop retrofited 1994 Fadal 4020. I decided to make a thread about my machine and post some things ive learned and some of the wiring information i have figured out about Fadals along the way. Hopefully it makes things easier for someone. So heres my story...

    I bought my machine last summer and the previous owner had already started the Kflop conversion. He had the three axis moving, spindle somewhat working, waylube and drawbar working. Basically got the bare minimum done to actually make a part and then stopped. Bit of a sloppy job as well, but i had a good head start with the machine. Here are some pics of the machine when i got it:

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-fadal-1-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-wiring-1-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    This machine uses DC servos and the original motors and drives are being controlled by Kanalog. The original motors had tachometers and resolvers and velocity mode servo drives. The previous owner removed the Tachs and resolvers, added encoders and modified the drives to operate in torque mode with Kanalog controlling them. Looks like he bypassed the velocity loop and soldered signal wire directly into a specific point in the amplifier farther down the line. This is working well, no issues with motors or drives so far.

    When i got the machine I cleaned up alot of the wiring and traced nearly every wire in the machine and got rid of anything not needed. Nothing at all worked in the original control box on the front of the machine so i stripped that and added a LCD display, keyboard, buttons and overrides and an MPG so this machine could be operated like a normal VMC instead of fiddling with a laptop. I had to add a Konnect board to get the number of inputs and outputs i needed.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-wiring-5-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-wiring-4-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-fadal-decals-4-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Controlling all the outputs on a Fadal is a piece of cake, couldnt ask for an easier machine to control. Fadals use a power disribution board that has built in solid state relays and fuse protection for almost every output. The SSR's are powered with 5v from this board and the relay (and output) is turned on by connecting the other pin to ground. All these relays are controlled through a ribbon cable connector and winford sells a breakout board to connect to it: https://www.winford.com/products/brk2x17.php

    There are two of these relay boards, one in the side cabinet that is connected to the breakout board, and another in the rear cabinet that is factory connected to the first board with another IDC cable. The breakout board is only connected to one relay board, but it will control both of them through this other cable. Its as simple then as getting Kanalog or Konnect opto outputs or relay outputs to connect a certain pin to ground and a particular function (coolant, drawbar, waylube, ATC motions, etc) of the machine is turned on. See the notes ive attached for which pin controls what. Please note that my Cable is most likely backwards! I bought the ribbon cable and ends from winford and made my cable this way so the wiring was neater. If you use a factory made cable the pin numbers will probably be all different. See pic below, it needs to be the same as this without a twist.

    The spindle is controlled the same way, but it doesnt go through the breakout board. There is a small three pin connector at the bottom of the board (its hidden by a cable in pic sorry). The middle pin connected to ground turns spindle on and it will shut off when disconnected. The right pin is for reverse and the left pin is not used.

    All of the sensors for the tool changer I connected to my Konnect board. They were powered by 5v and some had a 220 ohm resistor inline as well. See the notes I made for details on this. Sorry its not neater but dont have time to type it all.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-wiring-3-jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Heres a pic with Konnect added and everything in the control box finished. The machine has WAY more stuff connected and working in this picture then when i got it, and yet it looks much cleaner and neater then before.

    So thats about it for now. The project was alot of work, but its a great machine now and it didnt break the bank. Great learning experience too. I dont have any electrical background. Im a mechanical guy with basic electrical knowledge but was always interested in electrical stuff. I wasnt sure how to control a simple output like a coolant pump when i started and I had zero experience with C programming. After watching a few videos, looking at example programs and some help on here im fairly comfortable with it now. And its awesome to have so much control over what your machine does with the C-programming. Really happy with the Dynomotion system overall, and the Fadal ended up being a great machine to retrofit. Hope this info is a help to someone and thanks to everyone who helped me along the way.

    Also please verify the information I posted for yourself, a few things may have been moved around on my machine. Be careful and good luck with your retrofit.

    Mark

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-wiring-2-jpg   My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit-fadal-decals-3-jpg  


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Mark,

    Nice work! Thank you for providing the details of the retrofit. Are you using the Index marker for homing the axis?

    Chris



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by COlger View Post
    Mark,

    Nice work! Thank you for providing the details of the retrofit. Are you using the Index marker for homing the axis?

    Chris
    No unfortunately my encoders do not have an index mark. I wish they did and would recommend anybody sourcing encoders to look for models with an index. I hate to admit it but I still haven't added any home switches yet. Im able to use the mill fairly well as it is so the home switches got moved to the back burner until I get some more free time. When i get my lathe done ill finish the home switch issue.

    For anybody not used to Fadal, they dont actually use home switches at all. They have a visual "cold start position" marker on each axis and you have to line up these marks and run a cold start proceedure which looks for the index mark and thats it. Position and limits are controlled by the software after that.

    I've been shutting down the machine at the cold start position, and visually double checking all 3 marks on startup for now. Not the best setup, but good enough for travel limits and toolchanger for now. It actually works surprisingly well like this, but its obviously not the right thing to do and i don't recommend it.



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Mark,

    This might be a question for DYNOMOTION, but is the KANALOG board setup to use the Index channel? The schematic looks like it only uses AB?

    Chris



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by COlger View Post
    Mark,

    This might be a question for DYNOMOTION, but is the KANALOG board setup to use the Index channel? The schematic looks like it only uses AB?

    Chris
    For the index channel, the usual way would be to use another encoder input. The way the way the Kanalog encoder inputs are designed, is although the A/B inputs connect directly to a hardware encoder counter, each A/B channel can also be used an individual/standalone input.

    To connect an index channel to a Konnect, you would need to ensure it was capable of operating a Konnect input (you would probably need to use some kind of buffer, to ensure you get the required 4.75V needed to guarantee an on state, as a standard encoder may struggle to reach that voltage), and you would have to home slow enough to ensure the index pulse is long enough to guarantee the Konnect input stays on for long enough to be detected (Konnect boards don't read/updated by the KFlop as fast as KFlop/Kanalog inputs - Going by my notes, it works on an approx. 100uS refresh rate for a single board, so you would need to guarantee your index pulse was present for at least 100uS).



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Hi mmurray70,

    Thanks so much for sharing. You do nice work. I especially enjoyed the completely empty card cage and the pile of wires

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi mmurray70,

    Thanks so much for sharing. You do nice work. I especially enjoyed the completely empty card cage and the pile of wires

    Regards
    Thanks Tom. My friends/family thought i was crazy to tear all those wires out of my newly bought machine, nobody thought it would ever work again lol. I wasnt totally sure at one point but it all worked out good.



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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    I had a request for my C-programs so here is a copy of all my C-programs and the KmotionCNC configuration files. Not sure if i got them all, if theres anything missing let me know. Currently using 4.34i

    Please dont try and use this code as it is. I would suggest creating your own C programs for your machine and maybe use this as a reference for ideas. Im not an expert programmer, might have been lots of better ways to do things. But my machine does work well now with this code. Every function is working properly, and every sensor is checked during toochange etc. Only thing missing is homing, sorry, see post above. lol

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Default Re: My Fadal 4020 Kflop Retrofit

    Hi Murray,
    Looks like a nice clean machine. Its something to see all the open space in cabinet after all the "old junk" was replaced with Dynomotion.

    Troy

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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