Build Thread Tree325 Retrofit Started - Page 8


Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 567891011 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 343

Thread: Tree325 Retrofit Started

  1. #141
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post

    Set #1 - accurate cutting

    You will need to choose some criteria regarding maximum cutting speed an precision. You can then find the maximum Acceleration that will allow you to achieve those goals. For example you might decide you will never need to do accurate cutting over 30ipm and you are ok with 1mil precision. Convert the 30ipm to counts/sec and set that as your V to test. Convert the 1mil precision to counts so you know what to look for in the plots. ........
    Can we please start with some of the math:

    I am thinking I would like to actually cut at 70 ipm with and accuracy of .001".
    So my understanding would be that I would want V=23,333 counts/sec for a 70 ipm (which is 1.1666 ips) cutting feed-rate base on 20,480 counts which gives 1.0" movement on this machine axis.

    I do not understand how to convert the 1 mil precision to counts.


    Back on this Thread -- #130

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ..... With those settings the error is ~120 (6mils) peak when accelerating and decelerating. This seems somewhat large for this moderate speed (~60ipm). .......
    How did you calculate this? I am assuming you were referring to the same thing here?


    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 01-01-2018 at 01:43 PM.


  2. #142
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    355
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Yes... that is correct. 2000 counts on the servo motor axis (pulley) will move the ball-screw axis One-Half of a revaluation, which is 100".

    So, the Servo Motor Axis moving 2 revaluation to a count of 4000 will rotate the Ball-Screw 1 revaluation, which is .200" (on a dial-indicator).
    So using those figures, screw pitch is .2", and it takes 4000 counts to move 1 revolution, or 0.2", so that means it takes 20'000counts (4000 x 5 revolutions) to move 1".
    Which then means it takes 20'000/1000(thousands per inch) or 20 counts to move a thou.



  3. #143
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post

    Set #1 - accurate cutting

    You will need to choose some criteria regarding maximum cutting speed and precision. You can then find the maximum Acceleration that will allow you to achieve those goals. For example you might decide you will never need to do accurate cutting over 30ipm and you are ok with 1mil precision. Convert the 30ipm to counts/sec and set that as your V to test. Convert the 1mil precision to counts so you know what to look for in the plots. Now try different Accelerations to find the level that meets your precision goal. With lower Acceleration the system should be able to follow the trajectory more precisely. Each time you change the Acceleration set the Jerk to 1000X the Acceleration number. This simulates switching the Acceleration on and off instantly (in 1 millisecond) similar to what will occur when cutting.

    When you are finished record the Acceleration and convert it to inches/sec^2 (divide by the resolution) to be entered later into KMotionCNC's Trajectory Planner.
    ...
    ...

    Once again, I am having a hard time discerning what I am looking for in the plots on this test.

    Here is a video on this test ... I am sure my confusion is pretty pronounced. (Zip File 43mb)

    Kmotion Data file and Parameters used


    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Which then means it takes 20'000/1000(thousands per inch) or 20 counts to move a thou.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ......Convert the 1mil precision to counts so you know what to look for in the plots. Now try different Accelerations to find the level that meets your precision goal.....
    Are we talking about the same thing here?
    Somehow I think I am missing something. I do what to try and hold 0.001" accuracy with a 60-70 ipm feedrate (while cutting) and I understand how 20 counts = 0.001" but this 1 mil precision certainly isn't the same thing ... is it?

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....



  4. #144
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    355
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
    ...

    Are we talking about the same thing here?
    Somehow I think I am missing something. I do what to try and hold 0.001" accuracy with a 60-70 ipm feedrate (while cutting) and I understand how 20 counts = 0.001" but this 1 mil precision certainly isn't the same thing ... is it?
    .....
    We are, although it's not a term I like or use.
    In imperial a mil means 1 thou.
    In metric, using it verbally would be short for millimetre.



  5. #145
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Today I loaded the X-axis Table up with about 140lbs of steel and tested the Error base on the current final working X-axis servo "Step Response" Values (P,I,D, V, A, J,) over a the 10,000 count move.
    The Error plot and Command/Position Plots look the same as the plots without the load. However, I did see less dithering at the pulleys (physically oscillating) but the error plots still is hunting at zero.
    I'm surprised the extra mass didn't affect the performance of how the feedforward reduced the error. It isn't clear what you mean by "looks the same". Its hard to see the amount of error on the Position/Command plots. Are you still only getting ~6 counts of error? If so I suppose the change in mass reflected back through the lead screw + belt reduction compared to the motor mass isn't as significant as I expected.

    The few counts of servo dither can easily be affected by mass and friction changes so that isn't surprising.

    I also noticed with a load on the table when I move with a count of 10,000 I no longer get an exact move of .500" on my dial indicator. It moves .493" and then back to zero.
    Can I assume that this will be addressed later?
    Well I'm afraid no. Again is the Error Plot showing small < 6 count errors in movement? If the encoder indicates the move went perfectly (or within 6 encoder counts or 0.3mils) then that is the best the servo can do. It is doing everything it can to move correctly. If the table/part doesn't move correctly then that would indicate some type of mechanical error. Backlash, leadscrew, belt compliance, or the guide-ways are are allowing some sort of roll, pitch, yaw of the table that is load dependent. This is where linear scale encoders right on the table would help but even then there can be roll, pitch, yaw, non-straightness, etc...

    I was able to barrow a Gates Sonic Tension Meter (model 508C) to check the tension on all three servo belts.
    Based on the information I found the X-Axis and Y-axis checked within a couple of Hz; however Z-axis needed adjusting.
    I don't fully understand this but it seems the tensions are reasonable.

    Set#1 - accurate set

    Once again, I am having a hard time discerning what I am looking for in the plots on this test.

    Here is a video on this test ... I am sure my confusion is pretty pronounced. (Zip File 43mb)
    The main thing to look for is the error plot and the maximum error. Your video only shows one plot at V=40000, A=100000. J=infinity where the error has increased now to ~18 counts. That's still less than 1 mill so it might be ok to move on.

    Are we talking about the same thing here?
    Somehow I think I am missing something. I do what to try and hold 0.001" accuracy with a 60-70 ipm feedrate (while cutting) and I understand how 20 counts = 0.001" but this 1 mil precision certainly isn't the same thing ... is it?
    Since we think we have tuned the servo optimally already the only thing we can do now to reduce errors is to slow down the system and/or use less acceleration. Your biggest source of error appears to be with the shock caused by sudden acceleration (when you stomp on the gas). This shouldn't change with top end speed (if you spill your coffee when we stomp on the gas it won't matter if we intend later to back off on the gas when we reach 60MPH or 100MPH). What matters is the acceleration used (how far we stomp the gas pedal down).

    The V=40000 is 120ips so you might want to change that to 20000 if you want to see the results for 60ipm.

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  6. #146
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    ......
    In imperial a mil means 1 thou.
    In metric, using it verbally would be short for millimetre.
    Thanks m_c for the clarity on this.
    In all my years working in manufacturing
    /machine shops..... I have never heard anybody refer to 0.001" (one-thousandth) as a mil.
    If units of metric were used .... then milimeters and/or microns were verbally/written accordingly.

    .....
    .....



  7. #147
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Since we think we have tuned the servo optimally already the only thing we can do now to reduce errors is to slow down the system and/or use less acceleration. Your biggest source of error appears to be with the shock caused by sudden acceleration (when you stomp on the gas). This shouldn't change with top end speed (if you spill your coffee when we stomp on the gas it won't matter if we intend later to back off on the gas when we reach 60MPH or 100MPH). What matters is the acceleration used (how far we stomp the gas pedal down).

    The V=40000 is 120ips so you might want to change that to 20000 if you want to see the results for 60ipm.
    ....
    .....

    OK ... I re-read this thread all over again (from about #108) from where I started tuning the X-axis servo. Making it this far brought more understanding of all the previously information Tom shared, which, at the time was not too clear to me.
    So I re-started the tuning of the X-axis servo with all the default setting in the “KanalogInitialPID.mot” file. Step by step do everything over. The new settings I have now I believe produce a stable, accurate enough for me, tuning for the X-axis. When I apply +20% more for the parameters I have “Cutting Values” and "Rapid Values” on the Motion Profile (V, A, J) the system remains stable, which I did not have with the first achieved setting I first came up with.

    Can I please get verification from somebody on my math here?

    For the final motion profile parameters (V, A, J): Accurate Cutting
    V=30,000, A=60,000, J=600,000 which produce an Error of 10 counts.
    So my accuracy should be 10 counts/20,000 counts = 0.0005”
    And
    With V= (30000 counts/sec) * (1in/20,000 counts) = 30K in / 20K sec = (1.5 in/sec) * (60 sec/1min.) = 90 in/min.
    I should be able to cut at 90 in/min with an accuracy of 0.0005” (0.5 mil)

    Based in the next two plots … Am I calculating this correctly?

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-x-axis_cutting_error_graph-png .... Readable Image
    ...
    Tree325 Retrofit Started-x-axis_cuttingcommandposition-jpg .... Readable Image



    For the final motion profile parameters (V, A, J): Rapid Moves
    V=60,000, A=300,000, J=600,000 which produce an Error of 14 counts.
    So my accuracy should be 14 counts/20,000 counts = 0.0007”
    And
    With V= (60,000 counts/sec) * (1in/20,000 counts) = 60K in / 20K sec = (3 in/sec) * (60 sec/1min.) = 180 in/min.
    I should be able to move in Rapid at 180 in/min with an accuracy of 0.0007” (0.7 mil)

    Based in the next two plots … Does this look correct?

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-x-axis_rapid_error_graph-jpg .... Readable Image
    ....
    Tree325 Retrofit Started-x-axis_rapid_commandposition-jpg .... Readable Image

    Here is the Video of Kmotion testing of the above.

    I also have a question concerning the "Max Following Error" setting on the "Configuration" screen.

    Since it looks like I have about 14 count error being the worst error on the X-axis with these parameters, would I make this "Max Following Error" something like 25-30?

    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 01-07-2018 at 10:20 PM.


  8. #148
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Can I please get verification from somebody on my math here?

    For the final motion profile parameters (V, A, J): Accurate Cutting
    V=30,000, A=60,000, J=600,000 which produce an Error of 10 counts.
    So my accuracy should be 10 counts/20,000 counts = 0.0005”
    And
    With V= (30000 counts/sec) * (1in/20,000 counts) = 30K in / 20K sec = (1.5 in/sec) * (60 sec/1min.) = 90 in/min.
    I should be able to cut at 90 in/min with an accuracy of 0.0005” (0.5 mil)
    I think your math is correct. Of course keep in mind Servo Errors are only one of many errors in a system. The worst case sum of all the errors will be the final accuracy.

    However two things:

    #1 - I see your I Gain is extremely low (1e-7). That is why the 10 counts of error maintains for a full second or more without any correction attempt. The 10 counts of error is still small because of well tuned Feed Forward so it would probably work ok. Like I tried to explain before, I find it best to rely on feedback rather than feed forward. You might think about it like running through a maze blind folded vs feeling the walls to determine your path. If you learn the maze well you can do it blindly accurately and quickly, but if anything changes you'll do badly. Feeling the walls would be more forgiving to any changes and is a more robust approach.

    You might turn off Feed Forwards, turn I gain up to reduce the errors, then Turn Feed Forward back on.

    #2 - when testing cutting you don't have the luxury of setting Jerk to whatever value you wish. Set it to 1000X the Acceleration value to simulate no Jerk limit. In your case where A=60000 then set J=60000000 or 6e7. Then test again. The higher Jerk may cause larger errors.

    For Rapids you can set Jerk to 10X the Acceleration like you have or to whatever works best.

    I also have a question concerning the "Max Following Error" setting on the "Configuration" screen.

    Since it looks like I have about 14 count error being the worst error on the X-axis with these parameters, would I make this "Max Following Error" something like 25-30?
    Yes that might be a good value. It isn't very critical. If you ever get following errors under normal conditions you can then increase it some more.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  9. #149
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    #1 - I see your I Gain is extremely low (1e-7).
    You might turn off Feed Forwards, turn I gain up to reduce the errors, then Turn Feed Forward back on. ....
    Ok, I started tuning the Y-axis and I have to say the Y-axis is tuning so much more easier than the X-axis. It makes me think that maybe the point "mmurray70" brought up on page #131 of this thread may be valid. I certainly do not have the knowledge and/or experience to answer this correctly; however, I am sure someone on this forum would know. The SD-1525 driver board provides for multiply Potentiometer setting for each axis according to the manual (see Quick links below). I am wondering if it would pay to try and adjust this setting to help get better tuning out of Kanalog on my X-axis?

    As it stands I believe this is the best I can get out of the re-tuned X-axis after re-visiting and raising I-Gain I had. Tom, Can I please get you to once more look at these X-axis plots video for feedback?

    Video of tuned X-axis (with out Weight on table) (ZIP file 14mb)

    Video of tuned X-axis with 125lbs on the table (Zip file 23mb)



    Here are the videos of the first tuning of the P,D,& I-Gain on the Y-axis which, as I said above, tuned so much better than the X-axis. The second video is the with the D-Gain and added filter. I just did not see any improvement with the D-Gain. In fact, I left it at "2" because if I increased it any more I just got more error.

    Am I interpreting these plots correctly?

    ....
    ....
    Video -- P-Gain Tuning on the Y-Axis (Zip file 45mb)

    Video -- D-Gain Tuning on the Y-axis (ZIP file 23mb)

    Video -- Final Tuning of the Y-axis with P, D, I Gain & Feed-Forward (Zip file 9.6mb)


    Here is a video of the final tuned Cutting Parameter for the Y-axis (ZIP file 8.3mb)

    Here is a video of the final tuned Rapid Parameter for the Y-axis (Zip file 6.2mb)

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....



  10. #150
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    The Y tuning looks great. I don't know why Y is different from X. It is likely to be mechanical differences - mass, balance, stiffness, compliance, etc... Or I suppose it could be amplifier tuning. Again I'm not familiar with those amplifiers and I worry if you start adjusting those 6 potentiometers if it messes things up it might be hard to get back to where you were. I suppose you could record where they all are using an ohm meter. Or make careful changes to one pot at a time in a way that you can set it back if necessary. I'd suggest leaving things as they are and coming back to it only if it turn out to be necessary.

    Its great to see you now grasp so many of the fundamental concepts.

    But I think you are missing the point on D Gain. In the video you start adding some small D Gain and the error increases slightly and you think it is a bad thing and you stop, D gain by itself is like dragging the brakes or submersing the machine in honey. It tends to kill oscillations and makes the system more stable. But this by itself will tend to slow down the system, decrease performance, and increase errors. But then it is likely that the P Gain can be increased to increase performance to a point higher than was possible previously and still have a stable system.

    The D Gain tends to be a value ~ 10X times or more of the P Gain to have a significant effect. At some point it will make the system unstable.

    With high D Gain a Low pass filter is usually also required to reduce spikes in the output. Your Videos didn't show your Filter settings.

    But with all that being said I doubt if it would make much difference in your system. Your results are already quite good and your aplifier is probably already doing a good job of adding dampening with the Tachometer feedback.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  11. #151
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    537
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Looks good. If the machine is powered down can you turn the pulleys by hand easily? Do the X and Y feel the same? Seems to be less oscillation with the Y axis for sure. As Tom said its probably not be worth messing with. But the possibility of getting the X a little better by adjusting the amp would be very tempting for me.



  12. #152
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    The D Gain tends to be a value ~ 10X times or more of the P Gain to have a significant effect. At some point it will make the system unstable.
    With high D Gain a Low pass filter is usually also required to reduce spikes in the output. Your Videos didn't show your Filter settings.
    Yep, had Low Pass 2nd filter on "The second video is the with the D-Gain and added filter" (#149) I also increased the D-gain on Y-axis to D=20.

    I also tuned the Z-axis and I believe I now have all the three axis tuned.

    Video of the Z-axis Plot of tuned , cutting parameters, and rapid parameters. (Zip file 55mb)


    Tom, Can you please advise as to the the next step I need to take with KFLOP/Kanalog?

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....



  13. #153
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    That all looks good. Just one minor detail I wanted to point out mainly for others. A common mistake is to not test your settings at full speed. Here is an example where max Velocity is obtained:
    Tree325 Retrofit Started-maxvelocityachieved-png


    Here is an example where Max Velocity is not tested. Because the plot above needs about 800 DAC counts to go half the speed. We should see about 1600 DAC counts to go at full speed. Your test size is too short to reach full speed. A quick look at the Velocity Plot would also show this.
    Tree325 Retrofit Started-nomaxvelocity-png

    I have no doubt your settings will work fine on longer moves so there is no need to go back and do more tests. I only point it out because I find this to be a common mistake where the max velocity is set way too high but a big enough move is never tested to show the problem.


    Lets move on!

    I'll assume you have set reasonable Max Following Errors. If not do so.

    #1 create an Initialization C Program with all your Rapid settings. See:
    KFLOP C Programs - Dynomotion
    Note you might open the Init3Analog.c example and simply merge all your screen settings into it. There is a button on the Config/Flash screen for this.

    #2 Assign the Initialization C Program to a User Button in KMotionCNC
    Tool Setup Screen User Buttons

    #3 Configure KMotionCNC for your XYZ Resolutions
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #4 Convert your cutting Velocities and Accelerations to inch units (divide by resolution) and set the axis parameters for cutting as well.

    #5 Set reasonable Jog Speeds and step increments for your system
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #6 test Jogging and GCode G0 G1 Moves

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  14. #154
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    3 phase power is not rare in the US, but it is only available to customers whose property is zoned industrial. A person cannot just decide to have 3 phase power brought into their residence, it isn't allowed. Most machine tools run more efficiently on 3 phase power and almost all new machine tools of any size are purchased for an industrial shop, so they are designed for 3 phase.
    As a result, most people who want a machine tool need to convert it from 220 3 phase to 220 single phase (expensive), or use a phase converter.



  15. #155
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    #3 Configure KMotionCNC for your XYZ Resolutions
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    Regards
    Question:

    In the documentation on Trajectory Planner it reads:

    "The third parameter is the maximum allowed acceleration for the axis in inches/sec2. The G Code Language has no provisions for specifying acceleration rates. Therefore the acceleration (and deceleration) along a vector used will always be the largest acceleration such that each axis's acceleration is at or below the specified limit."

    Is this calculated on the Cutting Parameters or the Rapid Parameters established in the testing of the servos parameters?

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs."
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings"

    .....
    .....



  16. #156
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Question:

    In the documentation on Trajectory Planner it reads:

    "The third parameter is the maximum allowed acceleration for the axis in inches/sec2. The G Code Language has no provisions for specifying acceleration rates. Therefore the acceleration (and deceleration) along a vector used will always be the largest acceleration such that each axis's acceleration is at or below the specified limit."

    Is this calculated on the Cutting Parameters or the Rapid Parameters established in the testing of the servos parameters?
    On this page - the Tool Setup | Trajectory Planner the "cutting" parameters should be entered. These parameters will limit the Velocity and Acceleration when feeding with G1 G2 G3 codes. They will not be used for G0 Rapid commands. For Rapids the Velocity, Acceleration, and Jerk settings in KFLOP will be used instead.

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  17. #157
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    #1 create an Initialization C Program with all your Rapid settings. See:
    KFLOP C Programs - Dynomotion
    Note you might open the Init3Analog.c example and simply merge all your screen settings into it. There is a button on the Config/Flash screen for this.

    #2 Assign the Initialization C Program to a User Button in KMotionCNC
    Tool Setup Screen User Buttons

    #3 Configure KMotionCNC for your XYZ Resolutions
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #4 Convert your cutting Velocities and Accelerations to inch units (divide by resolution) and set the axis parameters for cutting as well.

    #5 Set reasonable Jog Speeds and step increments for your system
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #6 test Jogging and GCode G0 G1 Moves
    I have the new "Init3Analog_Pete's_Final.c" file with all the Rapid parameters for all three axis. I define the KMotionCNC "Tool Setup - User Button" Key 120 to point to this file.
    I set all 9 parameters for the KMotionCNC "Tool Setup - Trajectory Planner" for the tested cutting parameters for all three axis.

    I am assuming KMotion does not need to be opened when running from KMotionCNC.
    I turned on the amp/driver.
    I then hit the "INIT" button on the KMotionCNC screen and now I get this error:

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotioncnc_error-png

    This does not make sense to me. This install was from the "KMotion434j.exe .... 136,628kb" file which should have install all the current files ... right??
    If I do what the error dialog message advises I get this warning message:

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotionflashwarning_error-jpg

    I really do not want to "render the KFLOP board inoperable", so I will not proceed until I get the facts on what is going on here.

    Thanks,



  18. #158
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Whenever you load a newer Version of KMotion you must Flash the corresponding Firmware into KFLOP.

    The risk is minimal and recoverable. Just don’t pull the plug or anything part way through otherwise there will be a few steps to recover. It should take less than 10 seconds to Flash the new Firmware.

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  19. #159
    Member PeterTheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    #1 create an Initialization C Program with all your Rapid settings. See:
    KFLOP C Programs - Dynomotion
    Note you might open the Init3Analog.c example and simply merge all your screen settings into it. There is a button on the Config/Flash screen for this.

    #2 Assign the Initialization C Program to a User Button in KMotionCNC
    Tool Setup Screen User Buttons

    #3 Configure KMotionCNC for your XYZ Resolutions
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #4 Convert your cutting Velocities and Accelerations to inch units (divide by resolution) and set the axis parameters for cutting as well.

    #5 Set reasonable Jog Speeds and step increments for your system
    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    #6 test Jogging and GCode G0 G1 Moves
    .....
    .....

    I final made my first KMotionCNC test (manual & NC code).

    Results were mixed. First issue: Manually all axis moved accordingly to the "Green Jog Arrows"; however, the directions of movement was wrong on all axis.
    When I ran the "box.ngc" NC code the direction of movement were the opposite of the NC code.

    I have yet to check the displacement of the move to ensure the correct amount. I will do this after a get the few issues resolved.

    Question: How do I change the direction of the "Green arrow Jogs" and the direction of the NC code values run?

    Second issue: I am getting errors (axis disable) when I try "single stepping" through the NC code even though the NC code will run when not "single stepping".
    Another issues seems to be when I add a Z-axis move (G01) to the "box.ngc" NC code I will get the same error (axis disable) when I try to run with or without ""single stepping".
    It seems to occur when the Z-axis line is read.

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-001_error_on_singlesteps-jpg

    Here are the final parameters I am using for KMotionCNC:

    Here is the "INIT" file used in KMotionCNC (File Download)

    I am wondering if the "MAX Following Error" is causing these errors.

    Here are the final tuned images (Initial Tuned, Rapid Tuned, Cutting Tuned) of all the three axis: LINK (HTML) (also in Quick Links)

    If you notice, on Frame "007", "Z-Axis Error - Tuned INITIAL", of this HTML image there is an error spike of about negative 85. I have tried to get rid of this is my initial tuning without success.

    Question: Why is this error spike happening?

    Can it be possible that my "MAX Following Error" is set to low for this initial error spike once the axis is commanded to move?

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply
    KANALOG Mounted & Connected
    Kmotion - Axis Encoder Manual Test of Position via Manual Movement
    Kanalog-Encoder Voltage High/Low Checks & 1KOhm Resister
    Kmotion Configuration Screens "RUN-AWAY"
    Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
    Tree Journeyman 325 Axis-Tension Frequency Settings
    Final Axis Tuned Error Parameters


    .....
    .....



  20. #160
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4042
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    I final made my first KMotionCNC test (manual & NC code).


    Results were mixed.


    Question: How do I change the direction of the "Green arrow Jogs" and the direction of the NC code values run?
    That's easy reverse the direction of the Axis in KFLOP by reversing the sign of both the InputGain0 and OutputGain. See:
    Dynomotion Motion Control Boards for CNC Manufacturing and Robotics Applications

    I am wondering if the "MAX Following Error" is causing these errors.
    Yes that is very likely as the Max Following Errors are set very close or even less than the errors observed in the Step Response Plots. Set the Max Following Errors to 50-100% more than the worst case errors that you observe. The idea is to only disable if something abnormally bad happens and not under normal circumstances. If you have the KMotion Console Screen open while testing you should see an error message indicating a Max Following Error and which axis.

    Here are the final tuned images (Initial Tuned, Rapid Tuned, Cutting Tuned) of all the three axis
    It seems you have incorrectly configured your rapid parameters into the KMotoinCNC Trajectory Planner Settings rather than the cutting parameters. If I look at the X Axis Cutting Parameters they are:

    V=30000
    A=100000

    dividing by the X resolution of 20225 gives

    V= 1.48 ips
    A = 4.94 in/sec2

    but you entered

    V = 1.48 ips
    A = 14.83 in/sec2 ???

    Please set all the Trajectory Planner Settings to the corresponding Cutting Parameters.

    If you notice, on Frame "007", "Z-Axis Error - Tuned INITIAL", of this HTML image there is an error spike of about negative 85. I have tried to get rid of this is my initial tuning without success.

    Question: Why is this error spike happening?
    Tree325 Retrofit Started-zspike-png

    As you can see the spike only happens on the initial start of motion, not when stopping and not when moving the other direction. I'm not sure if this is upward or downward. The asymmetry and direction sensitivity would tend to indicate it to be a mechanical issue. Like binding or stiction. You might try changing the sign of the move size to determine if it is the first move or the move direction. You might also try different starting positions to determine if it is binding at a specific spot.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 567891011 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Tree325 Retrofit Started

Tree325 Retrofit Started