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Thread: Tree325 Retrofit Started

  1. #49
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    I know this is elementary for you, however, let’s take a few small elementary steps.
    I like that approach

    1.) Just to confirm. I see the Kanalog DAC outputs on the board at JP11, So I would be connecting X,Y,& Z axis drive Pins (Red, pos. Leads on the old controller connector) to the JP11 pins 0,1,2 respectively and the Neg. Pin (black lead old controller connector) to JP11 GNDs.
    Correct

    2.) The old controller connector will no longer be connected at all or I only cut the first two wires on all three axis connectors and still keep the connectors connected? I am assuming this connect will no longer be connect on the drives.
    Only change the first 2 wires. I don't believe the other wires go to the old controller. The tachometer wires come from the tachometer on the motor. The drive needs that to know the motor speed so it can control the speed of the motor to what is requested by Kanalog. I think the other wires have to do with enabling the drive. You will probably want to keep those as well.

    3.) I do not know what pins are the Encoder Signal Pins on the drive board. I cannot discern the drive schematic at this point. Can you please advise?
    The Encoders are shown on page 3 of the schematic and shows how they were connected to the old controller. There should be shielded cables coming from the encoders which are mounted on the Drive motors or on the lead screws of the machine. You will want to disconnect them from the old controller and connect them to Kanalog instead. The +5V that power the encoders is probably best to now be driven by Kanalog rather than using the old controller's +5V mainly because it will make cabling easier.

    4.) I did notice on RickB's J325 retrofit drawing schematic (page 2), he had used a custom board. Will this be needed?
    RickB's encoders had single ended outputs rather than differential outputs required by Kanalog's differential encoder inputs. So he needed a converter. Yours seem to be differential (they have both the + and - signals). So yours should connect directly. You might read this:
    Dynomotion Motion Control Boards for CNC Manufacturing and Robotics Applications

    5.) When using shielded wire ... is on one end grounded to the GND on the Kanalog board?
    The general rule is with cables that carry signals (not power) the shield should be connected to the DC GND of the listener (receiver/input). So with the analog signals coming from Kanalog (or the Tachometer signals coming from the motor) the shield should be connected to the amplifier DC GND. The Tachometer already does this. For Encoder signals going to Kanalog, the shield should be connected to Kanalog DC GND

    HTH
    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  2. #50
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    I was able to find the Servo Drive Manual -- SD1525 ... which is a 37 page, 15mb PDF file.

    I have added to the the J325 Quick List of links below (J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual) :

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    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



    .....
    .....



  3. #51
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Ok ... I got all the servo Encoder signal wires identified and labeled for connecting to the Kflop/Kanalog broad.

    I also got my ATX power Supply connected with a 10 Ohm/ 10 Watt Resistor across the +5VDC and COM.

    I figured the simplest part of this retrofit would be installing the USB drivers and Kmotion.

    However, when trying to run the "Version" test at the Console window, after the install .... I get an error.... "Can't Connect to KMotion Board #0".

    I have two green lights on the Kflop. What should I be looking at to correct this?

    Here are a few images of what I have.

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kflop_kanalog_board-jpg

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_1-jpg Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_2-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_3-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_4-png

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_5-png Tree325 Retrofit Started-kmotion_6-jpg

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-atx_powersupply-jpg



  4. #52
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    The USB Drivers need to be loaded correctly without any errors or warnings in order for KMotion.exe to be able to connect.

    For Windows 7 please use the signed drivers from our latest Test Version V4.34j and see notes here:
    Dynomotion

    btw an ATX Power Supply is not usually the best choice because they usually have an undesirable internal connection between DC GND and Earth GND. Also they are designed for much higher power than the few watts KFLOP and Kanalog require (~10 Watts). A small regulated isolated 10 Watt 5V supply might be better and can be obtained for $15 or less.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  5. #53
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post

    For Windows 7 please use the signed drivers from our latest Test Version V4.34j and see notes here:
    Dynomotion

    Regards
    Hello Tom,

    I did run the Kmotion V4.34J install ... in fact I tried it on two laptops running windows 7 SP1; however, both have failed to connect to the Kflop board and version test failed.

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I typically do not let windows run every update that comes out on my laptops.

    Thanks,

    PeteW.
    ....
    ....

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    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



    .....
    .....



  6. #54
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    ....

    A small regulated isolated 10 Watt 5V supply might be better and can be obtained for $15 or less.

    Regards
    Tom, Do you see any issues with using a Power Supply like --- THIS --- for powering the Kflop board?

    Thanks,

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply

    .....
    .....



  7. #55
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTheWolf View Post
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    Hello Tom,

    I did run the Kmotion V4.34J install ... in fact I tried it on two laptops running windows 7 SP1; however, both have failed to connect to the Kflop board and version test failed.

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I typically do not let windows run every update that comes out on my laptops.

    Thanks,

    PeteW.
    ....
    ....

    .....
    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring



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    .....
    I also had a hard time getting it to work on Windows 7. Some combination of updates or service packs eventually did get it to work. I never did get rid of the error about driver signature, but it does connect and work fine. Too bad they keep changing windows so much.



  8. #56
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    I am guessing I am missing a windows 7 update of some kind. Can you please advise as to the necessary windows 7 updates that must be installed for Kmotion/USB driver to work?
    I'm afraid you would need to ask Microsoft which Updates are required for their Cryptography chain of Digital Certificates to work correctly if they even release that information. You might let us know which ones does the trick.

    That 15W 5V Meanwell power supply should work well.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  9. #57
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    I'm afraid you would need to ask Microsoft which Updates are required for their Cryptography chain of Digital Certificates to work correctly if they even release that information. You might let us know which ones does the trick.

    Regards
    Tom, Windows updates is not the issue I found. It would seem Microsoft wants to hold developers ransom for $$$ until they get their developed device driver files certified for $$$.

    So, there are a few ways to get around this. I chose to use a programs that basically puts the PC/laptop in development (Test) mode via F8 on boot-up and selecting “Disable Driver Signature Enforcement” from the advance screen in you CMOS. However, this action would be required on each boot-up.
    I chose to used a free program that will enable a Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider.

    The name of this program is "dseo13b.exe" and can be downloaded from this ..... WEB SITE .....
    It pretty much does what F8 does without going into the CMOS on boot-up each time.

    Or if you choose not to use this small executable you can try the following from this .... WEB SITE..... (the last posted solution), which basically is a bait & switch on the files at the OS level.
    Actually, this was going to be my first attempt before I ran across this web site; however, you would first need a working computer with the signed files.

    In any case ... I now have my Kflop/Kanalog boards talking to my laptop I plan on using for this retrofit.

    Tree325 Retrofit Started-kflop_talking-png

    ......
    ......

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply



    .....
    .....

    Last edited by PeterTheWolf; 10-25-2017 at 11:12 PM.


  10. #58
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    The KFlop drivers are MS certified, however certain versions of windows they don't get accepted.

    I had the problem on two different computers (a Win 7 Pro, and a Win 8.1), and on both, ensuring all the latest windows updates were installed cured the problem. Although the drivers are certified, that certification must also need to be known to windows via some update before everything works how it should.



  11. #59
    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

    Hi PeterTheWolf,

    Sorry to hear you are having all this trouble. You shouldn't need to do all that. Certain W7 systems seem to have the most problems. I think that was when Microsoft just started to require digital signatures. I'm not aware of anyone who couldn't eventually get them to load. We go through much trouble and expense to have the drivers digitally signed and cross signed by Microsoft.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


  12. #60
    Registered PeterTheWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tree325 Retrofit Started

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    Tom,
    I am now connecting the Encoder wires to the “Encoder Inputs” on Kanalog “JP1 / JP2”.
    Do I connect the “Marker +/-“ on these terminals as well?
    So I would be connecting the X-axis like this:

    A+ to JP1 (A0+)
    A- to JP1 (A0-)
    B+ to JP1 (B0+)
    B- to JP1 (B0-)
    MARKER+ to JP1 (A1+)
    MARKER- to JP1 (A1-)


    Tree325 Retrofit Started-encoder_connection_1-jpg

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    .....

    J325 Quick Links:

    Machine
    Existing Machine Schematics
    Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
    Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
    Existing Drive Board SD1525-10
    J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
    3-Phase Rotary Convert Used
    RickB's J325 Retrofit Wiring
    KFLOP 5VDC/15Watt/3A Power Supply

    .....
    .....



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